|
Post by pianoman on Feb 6, 2009 19:26:42 GMT -5
I have been corresponding with someone from this board, and he made such a wonderful point along this line.
He said, and I quote "If there is a God, and this God is powerful enough to create a universe as dynamic and complex as this, why would he worry about some of the crazy things that some of the workers and people in the truth worry about?"
I say nuff said ......................................................................Dale
|
|
|
Post by Joe on Feb 22, 2009 21:49:01 GMT -5
Dale,
I agree that the God that made us has made a very complex universe that we live in.
I do not however subscribe to the idea that he doesn't require much from us. In the old law, there was much that has been taken away because of Jesus blood being shed. But what about the spirit of that law. The moral character God desired his children to have. What does God worry about? I don't know if he does worry about anything. What does he require of US is what we should be worried about.
I think it is all about LOVE. Do we LOVE God? Do we LOVE Jesus? How much do we LOVE them? Jesus said take up your cross daily and follow me. What did he mean by that? LOVING him and putting aside our own thoughts and desires and reasonings is what I think it means... but there are others who think differently.
Joe
|
|
|
Post by pianoman on Feb 24, 2009 3:18:51 GMT -5
Joe, I agree. We can only be in tune if we have that love, and it must be the most important thing in our lives. If we don't follow daily, that is like breathing only when we have time. It will not sustain life. We need spiritual breath to sustain life also. That comes from walking. I think that God requires our all. Anything less is of no value.
Geoff, You are really on the line with my thoughts on this subject.
There should be no, we, no only, just am I right with God.
I know in my experience, meetings were a good place in my latter years. I have had some not so good experience in some areas in meetings, and blame it on the human factor, not the way. I think the "way" is as good as most have stated here, only as good as our revelation. Once we receive that revelation, no one can take it from us. We may not do things as sanctioned by all, but we can do things as sanctioned by God. If we are doing things that are sanctioned by all, we are depending on all to be correct, and we know that can't be possible, as there are so many different ways of thinking in the fellowship. Some have not received the revelation, and are simply following form, and that is not as bad as it sounds, because as Joe has stated, it led him to revelation. Maybe the other "dead" churches lead others, like Geoff to this way of thinking that led to his revelation. We all certainly agree that any religion made of man is not correct as Jesus, Himself said, this is not My doctrine, but my Father's. I think that if the fellowship took the WE out of the God's people part, and realized that ALL are God's children, but only those that have had that revelation, and follow, regardless of the way they follow, as long as they follow honestly in their hearts, are God's people. We have already seen in this post that many know that not all in the fellowship have a true understanding of God, and have not had the revelation, and as such, we can not allow ourselves to judge if others have received that revelation. Are they of the same spirit. I think that if we remove the WAY, and talk about the things of the spirit, most would really be surprised. I truly love many in the fellowship, and don't for a minute, intend to mean otherwise. It is just that when you come from such a troubled background, as mine, you are a target for a lot of things that the ones Paul mentioned in his writings. He talks about the tongue waggers, and backbiters, and we know they all exist. I am not trying to turn this wonderful post into a negative thing, as I believe that most have done well to express their feelings, in true fashion of the fellowship. I would only hope to have all be aware of the things that are turning people away, and would hope to reach those that are inside the fellowship to plead with them to not let it get away. If the things that are happening are not halted, will the fellowship remain intact. I don't think it would, and that would be heartbreaking. To me, this is the part that most don't like to talk about, but it must be confronted. Was Jesus timid about those that were walking falsely? Not at all, and yet we sometimes avoid confrontation, because of a Christ like spirit. When Jesus took on the money changers, He was not calm, and did not have a problem telling them they were corrupting His Father's house. Should we not be following that example. I think of what Jesus said about loving those that love us, and how easy that is, but how hard it is to love those that hate us. Is it not easy to let someone we love get away with a little something now and again? Doesn't the scripture tell us to help the weaker brother? We are told how to rebuke an offending brother, and that is for his benefit, but how often have we truly done that in love. I love what Geoff said in his post about all being in a different stage of our walk, with God. I know that I am a truly difficult person to be around at times, but God has chosen me to walk with him, so I implore others to help me walk, as I would assist those that I can, to walk, in the only light of the world, Jesus' footsteps. We are all lost souls, but in my case, the sin in me was so evident, that it could not be missed. How many in the fellowship can say that. I mean, some may have been not so pleasant, but how many were so down and out, that no person in their right mind would desire to be their brother. The only friend I had was Jesus. He came for me. He removed my blinds, freed my soul, and took my burden. I think that sometimes we look at the goodness of others and think that they have something special about them. I know that without God's guidance, no one would mistake me for good. I am grateful for that, as I know where I stand.
I think that this post is wonderful to help others realize that the fellowship can be a wonderful place to be, but if corrupted, by ungodliness, it can be the worst place. I only hope and pray that all would strive to preserve it for the future generation.
God's love is a gift, freely given, and freely received. I would hope that we all would be moved to give part of the gift we have received, to those that need it most.
I apologize if this seems like a knock against anything as it is not. Simply my thoughts on many things about this way, and what would help preserve it.
If I were to hate it, I would not care about the preservation of it, and it's people. I think that it would be a good place to be, again, but I can't condone certain things, as it stands.
We all have an individual responsibility, to God, and we all need to remember that, and how our walk, and talk affect others.
I like to think that we are all struggling souls that seek the same thing, but are at different points, leading to the same light. We came from many ways, but are getting closer through those ways. Can we condemn that which brought us to God? I hope not.
I am grateful to have friends that respect me, and my walk with God. I pray for those that don't.
I also pray for the continuation of those that are true in spirit, to continue, and those that are not, to find the truth in their spirit.
I agree with Geoff, I am responsible for me only. But I can not close my eyes to injustice in that vein.
I am glad to enjoy the spirit of those here, and hope not to attack but fortify.................Dale
|
|
|
Post by Joe on Feb 27, 2009 23:49:00 GMT -5
Dale,
With all you have been through, and all you have come to understand, it is hard for me to understand why you would let someone take from you the joy of fellowship with those you love. Those you know would be glad to have you in their fellowship and those who would not reject you.
To say it is because you would be condoning someone else's behavior... I guess I get lost in the connection of the two. I would never let someone stand between me and those I want to be with who love my Father as I do. As you said in your e-mail that just came through... the people in this fellowship are not perfect and even as far back as Paul's day... yet he was an encouragement and inspiration to them and didn't turn his back on them.
Wishing you only the best of Heaven!
|
|
|
Post by nancye on Feb 28, 2009 15:00:28 GMT -5
Joe, Good to see you. Our friend explains that 'taking up our cross' means laying down our life for others in love. As Jesus did. I'm so glad I don't have to determine what's in another person's heart before I can love that person. We are free to simply love others no matter what.
Pianoman, I'm sad you had to grow up with such a bitter mom. Sounds like you're learning more about love now.
|
|
|
Post by pianoman on Mar 1, 2009 11:36:44 GMT -5
I like the theme on here where we are responsible for our own salvation.
One problem that will always exist, and it is sad, but true.
When someone of standing in the fellowship is caught in a completely inappropriate situation, the palace guards come running to condemn any other person that may be involved, and completely remove any culpability from the offender.
As long as that takes place, the fellowship is going to have mass exoduses and the folks, like many here are going to left holding the bag.
I will bow out now, as I don't want to get all negative, but have heard enough justification from some to feel really bad for those that choose to live as they should and call things like they really see them.
To answer the threads question, "Are We the Only Way?" For some, with blinders, YES.....
For the rest of you that seem so genuine, I pray for you and hope for the best.........Dale
|
|
|
Post by nancye on Mar 1, 2009 17:41:02 GMT -5
Oh dear...
That's o.k., get all negative if you must.
Just don't go away...
|
|
|
Post by pianoman on Mar 3, 2009 3:31:19 GMT -5
Nancye, I don't want to bring negativity here. I don't think it is appropriate, and so I will refrain from posting more. I appreciate your invite, but need to step back for a bit. Bitter pills leave a bad taste, but it goes away.
I wish the best to all, and may be back. Til then, I send my best to all that have been so kind..Dale
|
|
|
Post by nancye on Mar 4, 2009 0:06:44 GMT -5
Dale,
Thanks for the kind thoughts you expressed. Don't give up...
|
|
|
Post by mom2two on Jun 2, 2009 10:48:02 GMT -5
Forgive me, because I am not nearly as articulate as all of you, so expressing what is in my heart may not come as easy. I stumbled across this board today and am so glad I did.
Just a tad bit of history, only so you know who I am and what my history is. I hope I am welcome on here, as a Christian and supporter of all other Christians, including those wonderful, Christlike people who found Jesus through the Truth. I hope you can accept that this isn't how I found Jesus. Here goes (I'll try to keep it short!):
I am was B&R, and my mother's side of the family are almost all still professing, as are my parents. My sister and I are Christians, but are not professing. When I first left meetings, I found comfort on some of the anti-Truth boards, because it helped me understand and come to terms with some of my concerns that I had regarding the Truth. I have to tell you, I left meetings because I had a revelation (if that is the correct term) from God that implored me to leave, that there were things I saw (we had Sunday morning meeting in my home, so my father was an elder, relatives of mine were workers) that were not consistent with the teachings of Jesus (e.g., this original topic of being the only people who are right/save). I left, and I was on a long journey that included researching VOT, etc. and trying out different churches, including Unitarian/Universalists! After a brief period of time, I no longer visited the VOT/TTT pages or read the literature because I learned what I needed to learn. It helped set me free to seek Christ without the idoloization of practices. Today, I am so grateful for my beginnings in the Truth, because it introduced me to Christ. However, I am also grateful God led me to question and study, because it helped me release some of my worship of practices rather than true spirit. I won't say that I came full circle back to meetings, but some of the bitterness I found on VOT also allowed me to challenge my own bitterness toward the Truth, which certainly isn't Christlike, but was necessary on my personal journey. Once I got past my own bitterness, I didn't need to be comforted by what I found on those sites. That is how I stu
|
|
|
Post by mom2two on Jun 2, 2009 10:57:02 GMT -5
sorry, silly laptop mouse was on "post reply" and accidentally clicked.
..stumbled on this board, which I am so grateful for because, as mentioned, my family still goes to meetings and I love them dearly and love their love for Christ. I need to better understand what is taught in meetings now, so we can have fellowship together without fear of judgment.
____________
Sorry for being so long-winded. Maybe I needed to get that out?
Anyway, I know Dale has said he is gone, but I just wanted to say that his post about his own history brought tears to my eyes. Although nothing terrible happened to me, I did experience a lot of pain on my journey, and saw things that disappointed me. I, too, hope that those who share fellowship in Christ, whatever their method, can reach out to those who are at different places on the journey and show love, understanding, tolerance, and GRACE.
One last point - I know how troubled it must make some of you to hear stories from those who have left "dead churches" and know it must make you question whether Christ can be found in those churches. Please remember that, for some, the Truth was a "dead church" too, and they found Christ somewhere else and are telling their story from that perspective, so my personal opinion is that there aren't "dead Churches" - only souls that are struggling and need a different journey/path than the one they are on to find salvation.
I may have strayed too far from the original topic, so I apologize for that. I also am unsure of whether is acceptable to post here if you aren't going to meeting, and I certainly don't want to intrude, make anyone feel uncomfortable, or come across as judgmental. Thank you for listening.
Jen
|
|
|
Post by Emy unlogged on Aug 17, 2009 23:18:11 GMT -5
Hi Jen I'm glad you posted. Maybe you have given up on an answer, but I don't get here often. Thanks for sharing your story. How long did your journey take? When did you stop going to meetings and have you found another church to fellowship with?
|
|
|
Post by trevor bereck on Dec 31, 2010 23:07:15 GMT -5
there shall be one fold
|
|
|
Post by trevor bereck on Jan 6, 2011 17:31:32 GMT -5
There is only one fold as it says in the bible. Only one true way. It also says there are other sheep not yet of this fold. But there will be one fold in the end. One true way.
|
|
|
Post by Truth seeker on Jan 20, 2011 5:34:30 GMT -5
There is only one fold as it says in the bible. Only one true way. It also says there are other sheep not yet of this fold. But there will be one fold in the end. One true way. Trevor, who (person) or what (our church system of fellowship) do you understand to be the "one true way"? Jesus said in John 14:6 "I am the way". If we equate a method of worship (eg. our church) with Jesus, that is idolatry. Go down that slippery slope and it leads to all manner of immorality. Sexual abuse of children will be one of the murky depths. Do you believe those who are taking a stand against sexual immorality amongst the workers to be friends of our church? Friends of Truth? I'm interested in your views. John 10:15-16 (ESV) "15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd." Perhaps Jesus meant it this way. One fold being the Jewish believers in him. Other sheep being Gentiles, not of the Jewish fold. One flock, being all who worship God in spirit and in truth (John 4:23). Jesus also said to the Samaritan woman "we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews" (maybe a reference to the Jewish fold, to which Gentiles were soon to be added). Think about it prayerfully. Because all that matters is what Jesus wants us to understand from his words. Best wishes.
|
|