Are We the Only Ones Right?

[nathanb]

joe said:

Makes me think of those words of that hymn... Seeking for a better country, Pilgrims, we are marching on; God is calling, we will follow where the Master's feet have gone. And then the words that I have posted below... that is added to each post.... It will be worth it all, when we see Jesus; Life's trials will seem so small, when we see Christ; One glimpse of His dear face all sorrow will erase, so bravely run the race, till we see Christ.

Amen, bro. We are following the Truth, the Way as it is in Jesus, He is the Everlasting life, the Truth of God, and the Way to Salvation. Our trust is in Jesus as our Lord God and Savior of the Truth and Way to God the Father.

Paul wrote to the Corinthians disciples in I Cor. 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I follow the example of Christ. Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remembering me in all things, and keep the ordinance, as I delivered them to you.

Church membership has NEVER gotten anyone into heaven but doesn't mean it's "Unimportant" to be committed to meet with like minded believers.

A person once said " I think every believer should join a church (assembly of believers) then someone replied, "But we are NOT joiners." Such response is contrary to the teaching of the New Testament. True. The Bible doesn't command believers to "JOIN" a church, because they are already members of the church, the body of Christ (Eph. 1:22,23).

But we read in the New Testament does instructi Christians to be actively involved in the local group "like minded" believers. This including identifying with Christ and His people through baptism, the Lord's Supper, Emblems (bread and wine), excercising one's spiritual gifts, studying God's word, fellowshiping, praying together (Acts 2:41-47; I Cor 11:26; Heb. 10:24,25; 13:7,17; I Peter 5:5).

Each local church (assembly of believers) is the body of Christ in miniature. The church is more than an organization; it is a LIVING organism, manifesting Christ to the world (I Cor. 12:12-31).

Attending, commitment to and active fellowship in a local assembly of believers is Biblical. Christ willingly identified with us by bearing our sin in His own body. Shouldn't we be willing to identify with Him by Uniting! with assembly of like minded group of His People?

[nancye]

SORRY, NATHAN, I GOT THIS OUT OF SEQUENCE! (SEE PAGE1)

As for your post above Nathan, it just so happens I've been thinking alot about the verse in the same chap (Heb. 10) that I refer to later in the post which says: :"Not forsaking the assembling yourselves together as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much more the more as ye see the day approaching."
The last part of the verse especially stands out to me......

Now to get to my original post: I like your comments Stan and Joe re: the "earnest" of the Spirit as a token given, an "unbreakable
promise"; and like having "a little bit of heaven in us".
Does being "sealed" by His Spirit have anything to do with the seal placed on a person's last testament or will? As in the new covenant?

And, yes, geoff, we'll get back to the original thread if we must.
What about considering who's righteous rather than who's "right". That's not the question mentioned above I know. But shouldn't it be? It's written that Abraham's faith was counted to him for righteousness.

Last night I was reading some notes of John Sterling's from Nathan's website.
He noted that there are some that draw back and no longer believe. And that it says that God has
no pleasure in them that draw back, but unto them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Heb 10:38 "Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back I have no pleasure in him."
:39 "But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul."

Somehow it's about faith. And faith being counted for righteousness. And that it's better to be righteous
than "right" as referred to above.
It's about having faith to the saving of one's soul.

I know, the question was: "Are we the only ones right?"
The only ones "right" are those "right with God". And we can't be "right with God" without His Holy Spirit
as in being born again of His Spirit. So who is that? Christ wasn't here yet in Abraham's time. But he
knew Christ had to come. And he had faith that he would come. That was counted to him for righteousness. He had faith for the saving of his soul. Heb 11:16 "But without faith it is impossible to please him; for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

John Sterling said that many believe the truth and it doesn't save their soul. He said he knew a man
who grew up where he was who never made a commitment to God. "All the days of his life, even to
his old age, he would stand on the corner contending for what his mother and father believed, but
he never took one step in faith, and it didn't save his soul, even though he could tell others what was right." He said, "When people believe that God is and that He is able, all the doors of heaven are opened
to them and there are no limitations."

In order to believe to the saving of the soul,
he encouraged them to remember the former days when God had delivered them.
Saul told David that he was not "able" to kill the giant. David told Saul: "There was a day when a lion
came and took a lamb out of my father's flock, and I went after him and I slew him. Then a bear came
and did the very same thing, and I slew him." He told Saul, "The Lord delivered me out of the paw of the
lion, and out of the paw of the bear, He will deliver me out of the hand of the Philistine.
"If He delivered me from one enemy that was going to destroy me, He is not going to allow me to be
destroyed by another enemy. Call to remembrance the former days."

John S. encouraged them to "Cast not away your confidence, which hath great recompense of reward."

He said, "If your faith is based on another man's faith, we are on thin ice."

He said, "Who is going to roll away the stone? Have faith in God."
"After Jesus was put in the tomb, when those women prepared those spices, they knew that the tomb was sealed and there were guards around it, but they went there just like it was wide open. Have faith in God."

He said, "Let us hold fast the profession of our faith." Anything apart from that is amateur." "Hold fast."
"Hang on to it. Grip it fast. Don't hold loosely. Don't be careless with it, because it is your life. That's
the thing that make life worth living. Don't waiver."

He told of going from "faith to faith".
"The righteousnes of God is from faith to faith." Like the baton in a relay race. "Our responsibility is to
not only hang on to it carefully and firmly, but is our privilege to be able to pass it on to other people.
To commit it unto faithful men and women." "No matter how young or old you are don't drop the baton."

"If we hold fast the profession of our faith, it will help us believe to the saving of our soul. Call to remembrance the former days when you've suffered, and God delivered you. God will not keep you from
being destroyed by one enemy to have you destroyed by another. Don't cast away your confidence, no matter what anybody says , no matter what anybody does; no matter what the world comes to, don't
cast away your confidence which hath great recompense of reward. And we would say to you all, above everything else, above every thing else, don't drop the baton."

Inspiring for sure!

So it's about faith and righteousness. Not about who is right compared to another.

Not that anyone on THIS board said that it was.

[fire]

Romans 8 answers the "who is right" question.

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus

If you are in Christ, there is no condemnation.

Notice how it does not talk about a group, church, how hearty we are, or if we are professing and possessing. Just that there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ.

John says, That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

[Emy unlogged]

It seems rather misleading to quote only part of that verse in Romans:

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

When I went to Bible Gateway to copy this verse, I happened onto a different version, not KJV. To my surprise, the part I emphasized was totally missing from the NIV, NLT, NASB, and even the ESV. I was amazed. However, it is included in Young's Literal Translation and the AB as well as all the new KJV.

Leaving out that part seems to give a much different slant to it, in my opinion. The verse as a whole indicates that being in Christ will mean turning away from our first natiure to give place to the Spirit and follow the Spirit.

[Richard McFarland]

Emy said:

When I went to Bible Gateway to copy this verse, I happened onto a different version, not KJV. To my surprise, the part I emphasized was totally missing from the NIV, NLT, NASB, and even the ESV. I was amazed. However, it is included in Young's Literal Translation and the AB as well as all the new KJV.

Emy unlogged and all,

We should be careful when we read other translations of the Holy Bible than the King James version. While difficult to understand and archaic sounding this version has the most complete volume of Biblical Works that were determined to be printed.

Some of the modern translations have taken the task upon themselves not only to make the Holy Bible easier to understand and read but also to append and abridge wherever the translators felt necessary. Most of the modern translations are not complete!

The New International Version has removed some 64,000 (sixty-four thousand) words from the Biblical texts including many complete verses and some very important and meaningful words such as regeneration, new testament and Calvary.

The NIV lines up with most of the modern translations but most importantly it lines with the Jehovah's Witnesses bible.

Some say reading other translations is sometimes a good idea in order to help us understand the wording or meaning of a verse. I have read in several translations and was not aware of the difference until it was made known to me. Now the omissions are glaring out.

I think we should be careful to not rely on other translations just as I think we should not rely on others interpretation of scripture when it us used to govern rather than edify our Spirit.

At Peace and in Christ,

Richard

[fire]

Emy said:

It seems rather misleading to quote only part of that verse in Romans:

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

When I went to Bible Gateway to copy this verse, I happened onto a different version, not KJV. To my surprise, the part I emphasized was totally missing from the NIV, NLT, NASB, and even the ESV. I was amazed. However, it is included in Young's Literal Translation and the AB as well as all the new KJV.

Leaving out that part seems to give a much different slant to it, in my opinion. The verse as a whole indicates that being in Christ will mean turning away from our first natiure to give place to the Spirit and follow the Spirit.

Emy,

It seems we are coming at this verse from two different perspectives. Please allow me to elaborate on how I view this passage in scripture.

I have not researched the reasoning why the last 10 words in Romans 8:1 were omitted from the NIV and other versions of the bible, however for a moment let’s set aside the reason, legitimate or not, and focus on the verse itself in both its forms.

I view the last 10 words as a description of “them which are in Christ Jesus” and not an additional restriction or qualification to determine exactly who the verse is referencing. And I don’t necessarily take the missing potion of the verse to be misleading; since I believe “them which are in Christ Jesus” are those who, by already being in Christ, will be walking after the Spirit and not the flesh.

Also, I do not believe it is possible for someone to be cleansed and justified by the blood of Jesus, indwelled by the Holy Spirit, and free of condemnation by being “in Christ”, yet still walk after the flesh and not the Spirit.


Thank you,
Fire

[fire]

Richard,

While I take your post to heart, I must add a reply.

I have a hard time limiting myself to only one translation, under the guise that it is the most complete or most accurate version, since every Bible we use is already a translated version taken from the original manuscripts written in Greek and Hebrew.

And if we wish to hold dear our KJV, where does the 1611 KJV or the 1599 Geneva Bible fit in?
For me, the compelling reason not to limit myself to the KJV of the bible can be found in Genesis 2:18.

Fire

[Chris]

Terminology can become misleading.

Are we "right" to refer to our fellowship group as "God's kingdom"?

Are we "right" to imply that "God's people" are only found within our fellowship group?

Are we "right" to refer to our fellowship group as "the truth" when Jesus used that term in refering to himself?

Are we "right" to refer to our fellowship group as "the way" when Jesus used that term in refering to himself?

Are we "right" to expect people showing interest in our church to renounce their previous experience with God and become "unsaved" so they can become "saved" in our fellowship group?

"What" we belong to doesn't make us "right". It's better to consider "who" we belong to.

Christ's sheep hear his voice and follow him, and need not fear. It's the Father's good pleasure to give them the kingdom.

In the gospels we read of times when the disciples tried to hinder people from coming to Jesus, judging them unworthy of the Master's time and attention.

It grieved him then, and I believe it grieves him now.

Chris R

[Richard McFarland]

[glow=red,2,300]fire[/glow]
I do agree with you. I have read and do have other translations of the Holy Bible and will continue to use them in my study of the Word. Where we should be careful is in where we know the Word has been abridged.

Some Biblical facts and history:

In the late 1300's and early 1400's tyranny of the Roman church threatened anyone possessing a non-Latin Bible with execution.

The Holy Bible contained 80 Books until 1885 A.D. when the decision was made to exclude the Apocrypha (or inter-testament works).

The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls in 1947 opened much of the lost or hidden original writings to new, skilled modern translators. This led to the following list and other translations.

1959: Berkeley. 1st rank translation. Faithfully rendered with lively modern English (NT only 1945, revised 1969)

1961: NEB: Completely new translation. First attempt to abstract translation from transient modernisms. Mixed response, questioned by evangelicals.

1971: NASB: Revision of the ASV 1901 "Modern and Accurate Word for Word English Translation"

1971: Living Bible: Liberal translation not favoured by purists.

1976: TEV (Good News): Wide appeal English bible with limited modern vocabulary.

1978: NIV: New translation from Hebrew & Greek by conservative scholars. "Modern and Accurate Phrase for Phrase English Translation"

1982: The "New King James Version" (NKJV) is Published as a "Modern English Version Maintaining the Original Style of the KJV"

The True Word of God is not hidden. I believe that with all honest Spirit based translations that God's Word will be published and that any of us may discover salvation and mercy there. There are Holy Bibles based on King James and other works that are printed in many languages for distribution around the world. Only a minor mistake in syntax can change the entire meaning of a passage when translating between languages.

God looks upon this and works through the translators. These men and women are responsible for God's Word! Even the king James Bible was translated at the whim of the King of England because he considered the marginal notes in the Geneva Bible to encourage disobedience to Kings!

James and the Bishop of London wrote the brief that guided the translation, such as prohibiting the marginal notes found in the Geneva Bible.

Read, study, meditate and pray and we shall be given the knowledge we need to follow Christ.

Peace in Him,

Richard

[elle]

Emy said:

It seems rather misleading to quote only part of that verse in Romans:

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

When I went to Bible Gateway to copy this verse, I happened onto a different version, not KJV. To my surprise, the part I emphasized was totally missing from the NIV, NLT, NASB, and even the ESV. I was amazed. However, it is included in Young's Literal Translation and the AB as well as all the new KJV.

Leaving out that part seems to give a much different slant to it, in my opinion. The verse as a whole indicates that being in Christ will mean turning away from our first natiure to give place to the Spirit and follow the Spirit.

To be fair it should be noted that the footnote in the NIV includes the extra bits and notes they are in later manuscripts.

And for me to be fair I need to declare my bias: I read the NIV version almost exclusively, and refer to the KJV only to check how my thoughts might align with others who only read this version. I'm a professing ( born and raised, third generation, regular 2x2 meeting attendee), over 40 yo female with 2 kids.

I love the NIV for the way it takes away the barrier of odd sentence construction and archaic language to understand more about our salvation. But of course nothing beats the guidance of the Holy Spirit and this transcends translations.

[Emy unlogged again]

I agree that the phrase left out is only a restatement of what "in Christ" means, but restatements are used for good purpose - to emphasize, or even remind.

[geoff]

I've noted that in the last 7 gospel meetings attended we heard quotes from translations other than the KJV.

Personally I rarely use the KJV preferring the ESV, which I use all the time.

[fire]

Emy said:

I agree that the phrase left out is only a restatement of what "in Christ" means, but restatements are used for good purpose - to emphasize, or even remind.

Agreed.

[fire]

chrisrussnz said:

Terminology can become misleading.

Are we "right" to refer to our fellowship group as "God's kingdom"?

Are we "right" to imply that "God's people" are only found within our fellowship group?

Are we "right" to refer to our fellowship group as "the truth" when Jesus used that term in refering to himself?

Are we "right" to refer to our fellowship group as "the way" when Jesus used that term in refering to himself?

Are we "right" to expect people showing interest in our church to renounce their previous experience with God and become "unsaved" so they can become "saved" in our fellowship group?

In the past I would have wholeheartedly said yes.

Now I cannot say the same.

"What" we belong to doesn't make us "right". It's better to consider "who" we belong to.

Christ's sheep hear his voice and follow him, and need not fear. It's the Father's good pleasure to give them the kingdom.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Amen.

In the gospels we read of times when the disciples tried to hinder people from coming to Jesus, judging them unworthy of the Master's time and attention.

It grieved him then, and I believe it grieves him now.

Chris R

We are all unworthy of his time and attention. Which makes our God so great, that his love for us means through, his grace, he has time and attention to meet our every need. What he does for us and in us is far more then we can ever do for him.

His time and attention in our lives is priceless!

[LaRonBeemer]

Chris,

I echo a hearty Amen. Thanks for sharing.
When I was so focused on the form, it became an idol to me.

A sobering question for me was: "What do you talk about when you meet someone not in our fellowship?" In the past, I would talk about our church and the benefits of our method and form, and was uncomfortable talking about Christ.

Now it is the other way around.

To God be the glory,
LaRon

chrisrussnz said:

Terminology can become misleading.

Are we "right" to refer to our fellowship group as "God's kingdom"?

Are we "right" to imply that "God's people" are only found within our fellowship group?

Are we "right" to refer to our fellowship group as "the truth" when Jesus used that term in refering to himself?

Are we "right" to refer to our fellowship group as "the way" when Jesus used that term in refering to himself?

Are we "right" to expect people showing interest in our church to renounce their previous experience with God and become "unsaved" so they can become "saved" in our fellowship group?

"What" we belong to doesn't make us "right". It's better to consider "who" we belong to.

Christ's sheep hear his voice and follow him, and need not fear. It's the Father's good pleasure to give them the kingdom.

In the gospels we read of times when the disciples tried to hinder people from coming to Jesus, judging them unworthy of the Master's time and attention.

It grieved him then, and I believe it grieves him now.

Chris R