fire
New Member
Posts: 18
|
Post by fire on Dec 4, 2007 5:52:37 GMT -5
Speaking of which - why are some of the commands Jesus gave in these lines now set aside, while others (going 2 by 2) are still adhered to by the ministry? Are some of the commands no longer valid in our time? Hi, Fire...
I would like to answer two of your questions. Can you rewords your two questions more clearly in what you want to know. Thanks, in advance. Look up the passages where Jesus sent out the 12 and 70 and told them to go out two and two. The going out in pairs was just one of many instructions Jesus gave in these verses. Why then do we ignore all the other commands Jesus gave when sending out the 12 and 70, and only focus on the one command of going out in pairs? Is this not cherry picking?
|
|
|
Post by nathanb on Dec 4, 2007 10:42:51 GMT -5
Hi, Fire...
I would like to answer two of your questions. Can you rewords your two questions more clearly in what you want to know. Thanks, in advance. 1) Fire wrote: Look up the passages where Jesus sent out the 12 and 70 and told them to go out two and two. The going out in pairs was just one of many instructions Jesus gave in these verses. ~~~ Yes, I agree going in pairs just one of many instructions Jesus gave to the 12 and 70 apostles and there's NOTHING wrong or unscriptures to continue going forth that way.
We read the apostles and disciples of Jeuss continue to go in pairs, sometimes 3 and one so it depends on the circumstances, needs, or situation throughout the book of Acts and through down the ages...
Two and Two: Acts 3:1 Peter and John Acts 13:2 Paul and Barnabas
Acts 15:24 Silas and Barsabas Acts 15: Paul and Silas Acts 15: Barnabas and John Mark
I Cor. 1:1 Paul and Sosthenes II Cor. 1:1 Paul and Timothy
More than 2 I Thess. 1:1 Paul, Silas, and Timothy
1 or alone. Peter went by himself as an apostle to Cornelius' house. Philip, preached and baptized Ethiopian. Paul, often went the synagogues by himself to help others.
~~~~ Sometimes the apostles and disciples traveled in larger group in Acts 16-18...2) Fire wrote: Why then do we ignore all the other commands Jesus gave when sending out the 12 and 70, and only focus on the one command of going out in pairs? Is this not cherry picking? ~~~ Nathan: Jesus gave specific instruction for the 12 apostles to follow in (Matthew 10:1-13) .... Those instructions were for the 12 apostles to follow when they bring the goodnews to the LOST SHEEP house of Israel .... Jesus told them NOT to Go to the way of the Gentiles..
A few weeks later, Jesus gave similiar instructions to the second group of 70 apostles but this time they were to go to every city and places where Jesus would come later... (Luke 10:1,2)
~~~ Why, would anyone wants the workers today! to follow the 12 and 70 apostles instruction at this time and place? Where did Jesus say or command in the Gospels that his apostles in Acts and through down the ages to follow these instruction at ALL time?
In the book of Acts we read Paul, Barnabas, Timothy, Silas, John Mark, and many others PREACHED and lived among the Gentiles which in Matthew chapter 10 he told the apostles NOT to do.
In Galatians 1:7-9 Paul wrote of the "NEW" instructions which Jesus gave them: Paul, Barnabas, Timothy, Silas, John Mark, Luke, Demas, Tychicus, Apollos, Aristacus, Justus, Archipus, Ephaphas, Sosthenes, and others to labore/preach among the Gentiles...
And the 12 apostles and perhaps the 70 apostles main gospel mission to work/labor among the Lost Sheep House of Israel and the children of Israel.
~~~ These instructions were the same through down the generation...Going in pairs, Itinerant preachers without homes, the Christians and apostles met in the homes of believers where they had taken the bread and wine= Eucharists in remembering what Jesus and praising God the Father has done for them, and having fellowship with one another to edify in spiritual things, or helping different churches by sending them money. ( I Cor. chapter 11-14)
~~~ I believe many people don't understand Jesus' instructions so they misinterpreted what he said in Matthew 10 and Luke 10. Therefore, some people come up with strange ideas, thoughts, teachings, and bad interpretation on these two chapters Matthew 10 and Luke 10.
I know what you are saying, Fire... because RAM and I have discussed about this on another message board before.
|
|
|
Post by nancye on Dec 6, 2007 1:38:20 GMT -5
I am remembering someone recounting their "testimony".....
Their grandmother had searched for what she had read in the Bible, but had not found what she felt was the same as what she had come to understand re: the NT church and ministry. Even at her death she had instructed her family that if they ever came to know of a ministry that went two together in an itinerant way as the NT described they should take serious note of that. Later 2 servants of the Lord did come to their area. They did take note, and continue in fellowship with those who live and teach as their grandmother had described even at this time.
I would have to say that it is this MINISTRY which is a strong factor in my belief that what we experience of fellowship TODAY, even among us who involve ourselves in this ST site, is the same as described in the NT. I have known some in the this ministry before they were sent forth to preach. I know them well, and I understand that when they responded to what had been laid on their heart to do there was a change that enabled to go and continue to do so.... This ministry should not work according to what we understand re: human nature, but we see that it can and does work through God's power.... I also know of some who gave what they could and then didn't continue. But overall we can see that this ministry patterned after that of the NT is alive and well in the world today. The church also that is described in the NT is alive and well in the earth today. Christ and our Father sent the Holy Spirit.... John 16:13 "Howbeit when he the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth; for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he shall show you things to come."....
The gospel seed that is sown is Living seed..... What we know is a Living ministry. A Living church. Through the life given to us through being born again of the Holy Spirit. We have Living fellowship through God's Spirit. It's a wonderful thing - all this..... n.
|
|
|
Post by sadinSeattle on Dec 13, 2007 0:22:24 GMT -5
There is no real Truth in religion. The only truth is through Jesus and Him only. Jesus did not die to bring religion. If anyone on this earth is calling themselves the Truth, needs to truly repent.
|
|
|
Post by nancye on Jan 24, 2008 21:41:24 GMT -5
I agree, Jesus did not die to bring religion. Jesus brought truth and life. We receive truth and life by believing He is the way to our Father above, through being born of His Spirit. We then walk by faith, and in His Spirit.
|
|
selah
Junior Member
Currently Reading 1 Samuel
Posts: 77
|
Post by selah on Jan 26, 2008 14:34:25 GMT -5
There is no religion higher than truth.
Blessings, Linda
|
|
|
Post by Joe on Feb 16, 2008 23:08:39 GMT -5
I believe God and Jesus expects us to worship them in spirit and truth. Now how is that? It says nothing about in a church building, a mountain, a city, but in spirit and truth within our hearts.
Religion is all the things the Pharisees stood for in Jesus' time. It makes one feel better than another because you are of a certain religious faith. When I read Jesus words he is pointing to something far above what the world of that time or even today think of as worship. It is a love that reaches out to others and reaches out to heaven. It is being a part of the body of Christ here on this earth. A body of his children. Those who love him and serve him and worship his Father which is in Heaven with reverence and Godly fear. What he puts with in my heart as a conviction is what I am convinced I need to do. I will keep my heart soft so he can continue to lead and deal with me... I wouldn't want to have to answer to anyone here on this board... they may misunderstand me... because they have no way of knowing what is in my heart.... so would never want to judge someone else.
So.... are we the only right ones? Excuse me.... but isn't God the judge? I don't think I want to be judging a brother.... I think God is a much better judge than I could ever hope to be because he knows the hearts and minds... I can only see actions and some people are good actors.
|
|
|
Post by ariandgabe on Jun 27, 2008 15:04:18 GMT -5
I have found the 2X2’s this ‘Way’ and this is what I learned:
A 2X2 Member wrote me: “We do pray for guidance from the Holy Spirit and we search the scriptures for answers. The Holy Spirit does not teach one group of people one thing, and teach something different to another group.”
Odon: “The Holy Spirit does not teach one group of people one thing, and teach something different to another group” that is true, but you assume that your ‘Way’ was started by the Holy Spirit. Yet I have asked you and the Workers over and over again to look at Matt 10 and Luke 10, and that your group does NOT fit into those verses. Your group of 2X2 Workers are NOT mentioned among the names of the 12 Apostles, nor can they be the ones from the 70 sent out 1900 years ago who later (the Bible quotes) ‘came back rejoicing’. Neither do they have the ‘powers’ given to the original 70 or the 12. They don’t even believe in them.
2X2 Member wrote: Just for clarification, we are not following William Irvine. We are following Christ.
Odon: Every Christian, or non-Christian denomination says that; “We don’t follow Mohammad, but Allah, we don’t follow Joseph Smith, but we follow Jesus Christ, we don’t follow the ‘name’ Jehovah, but we follow a ‘god’ whose name is ‘Jehovah’, we don’t follow a god of ‘Sabbath’ but we follow a god who can be worshipped ‘only on the Sabbath’, and so on.
Dear Members and Workers; the Workers that are “leading” your church are NOT the twelve chosen by Christ. Please read: Matt 10:1 “And when He had called His twelve disciples to Him, He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease”
First; your workers do not even believe that they can have; “power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease, and to raise the dead.” So why keep pretending and grieving the Power of the Holy Spirit?
Second; The very reason that the Bible mentions the names of these twelve is to make sure no one ‘else’ will duplicate the announcement of the arrival of Christ; “Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Cananite, and Judas Iscariot.”
God knew that many will try to imitate, and has been already announced, the arrival of “another” and we know that is the “Anti-Christ”. So just please, in the name of Jesus and His Holy Spirit, think; who are your “Workers” and ‘what’ are they really achieving? I have never read of a woman Apostle named June or Joyce chosen by Christ.
You may not be following William Irvine himself anymore, but you are definitely following the crooked path he started.
I am so sorry that you (2X2 Member) took the ‘burden’ of this spiritual battle, which is supposed to be fought by the leaders of your church, those who supposed to have been double blessed and are trained to stand up against just such adversity; Eph 6:12 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
I am challenging the very foundation of your church as to what it’s been built on, and your leaders, the shepherds of the flock are hiding in silence. Shouldn’t they be defending your faith? (This too should give you a hint as to who exactly started this “Way” and why your Elders and your church must remain hidden.)
John 3:21 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God." NKJV
Now that we proved that Irvine’s 2X2 Workers are NOT any of the twelve, let’s see if we can identify them in the 70 that Jesus sent out;
Luke 10:1-12 10:1 The Seventy Sent Out After these things the Lord appointed seventy others also, and sent them two by two before His face into every city and place where He Himself was about to go. 2 Then He said to them, "The harvest truly is great, but the laborers are few; therefore pray the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into His harvest. 3 Go your way; behold, I send you out as lambs among wolves. 4 Carry neither money bag, knapsack, nor sandals; and greet no one along the road. 5 But whatever house you enter, first say, 'Peace to this house.' 6 And if a son of peace is there, your peace will rest on it; if not, it will return to you. 7 And remain in the same house, eating and drinking such things as they give, for the laborer is worthy of his wages. Do not go from house to house. 8 Whatever city you enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you. 9 And heal the sick there, and say to them, 'The kingdom of God has come near to you.' 10 But whatever city you enter, and they do not receive you, go out into its streets and say, 11'The very dust of your city which clings to us we wipe off against you. Nevertheless know this, that the kingdom of God has come near you.' 12 But I say to you that it will be more tolerable in that Day for Sodom than for that city. NKJV
First, when Jesus seen that; “The harvest truly is great, but the laborers are few” the seventy were sent to ‘prepare the way’ for Christ “After these things the Lord appointed seventy others also, and sent them two by two before His face into every city and place where He Himself was about to go.”
Where? Where He himself was about to go. There was a sense of emergency; “Go your way; behold, I send you out as lambs among wolves. Carry neither money bag, knapsack, nor sandals; and greet no one along the road.” This plan had to be done quickly, because He said; “I assure you that you will not finish your work in all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.” Matt 10:23 So it could be fulfilled exactly as prophesied, before that Dragon; Satan could raise his army to mess things up, as he tried at Christ’s birth by killing all the children up to two years old in hopes of killing the Holy One.
“And remain in the same house.. Do not go from house to house.” None of this is done by these “Workers” Irvine sent out. Matter of fact, they do the opposite, and teach the opposite; “behold, I send you out as lambs among wolves” Indicating ‘un-believers houses’ “Do not go from house to house” Instead they go house to house of those who are already members.
“And heal the sick” “19 Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Luke 10:19 Instead the Workers teach that no one has those powers of the Holy Spirit anymore.
But the most important thing of all was to; “say to them, 'The kingdom of God has come near to you'”
If your 2X2’s preach that 'The kingdom of God has come near to you' it is the wrong message because the Kingdom of God has arrived at Pentecost 1900 years ago.
If they teach that people should be baptized in the “name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit”, why do they claim to be the seventy and the twelve that Christ sent out for a special purpose? This is the duty of “ALL” Christians today.
Luke 10:17 Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name." Here again we see that today’s 2X2’s are NOT who they claim to be, since the “original seventy” has “returned with joy”, 2000 years ago rejoicing that; "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name." thus, completing their task. (I heard of no demons cast out of people, or dead raised by Irvine’s 2X2’s because by their own admission, they do not even believe in those Spiritual powers.) By reading the letters that William Irvine wrote, it is obvious that he believed he was more then just a man. He thought he was someone great, even as great as Jesus himself. Just like many other self proclaimed prophets of his time. The Mormon prophets and now gods, Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, has also done the same thing. He too sent his workers out two by two to “prepare a way” for him. You will see that these men were one of many anti-Christ’s who deceived their followers.
By going out 2X2, you have accepted William Irvine as the "Alpha Prophet" spoken of in Deuteronomy 18:18-19 and Acts 3:20-23.
But we know very well that the scripture was written by Holy Prophets of God pointing to the coming of Jesus Christ and His Kingdom, NOT about these false prophets like; Mohammad, William Irvine, Joseph Smith, George Walker and the ‘like’. Like many other false prophets, William Irvine tried to imitate Christ by starting to send his own disciples 1900 years later to ONCE AGAIN preach; 'The Kingdom of heaven is near!' This time, it was for his own glory.
Also, “8 He commanded them to take nothing for the journey except a staff — no bag, no bread, no copper in their money belt” Workers today say that they depend on their ‘faith’ for everything in their lives. But in reality they depend on the church. They go from “member to member” who supply them with cars, money, food and lodging, which is no different from the Catholic nuns. But that is NOT the only point, the point is, the job of the ones that Jesus sent out 2 by 2 has been accomplished, they returned and now waited for that “Promise”;
Acts 1:4-8 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, "which," He said, "you have heard from Me; 5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now." 6 Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, "Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?" 7 And He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. 8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth." NKJV
We are to “die” to this flesh and walk according to the Spirit and be a “light” to this darkened world. The Apostles and the early church members gathered in the synagogues, in homes, in rented buildings any time of the week as many times as they could. If building a building is more convenient for the congregation, so be it.
If by any chance you (or Elders, Workers, Prophets) can find me even ONE place where the Bible apposes the gathering of the believers in a building or synagogue, or cathedral or stadium, by the riverside, on farms, fields, barns, anywhere other then houses, please show me.
Please (Members), you are smart and intelligent people, so I ask you to search your hearts and the scriptures and tell me; what is the difference between renting the Lyons Club, or building an exact building and assemble there? My old church “The Apostolic Nazarenes” gathered in houses first and when the congregation grew bigger, they added a hall to the ministers’ house and gathered there. When that became too small, they built a big building and assembled there. What is wrong with that? Just don’t make “It” (the building) the “Church”. Make sure that we never forget that where two or three are gathered together is the church. All the utility bills are added up and paid by the members. There is NO collection of money in church, everyone gives the person who’s responsible for paying the bills their portion. If a member needs help, they do take up a collection, but it is for that purpose only. They call the church; “The Gathering”, like we ask; where is the ‘gathering’ next week?
No one ever got ‘paid’ for any service and there was always an abundance of Ministers and Elders.
So I really don’t understand this big deal that the 2X2’s make of this; “church in a house’ thing? Thousands of other believers throughout the world do the same thing.
Dear friends in Christ, this very thing what continues to keep the world in darkness; the desire to worship the visible (people we see, a church that has a particular belief system) over the invisible God described in the Bible. Why is it that a god has to be visible for people to believe in Him?
If someone teaches the truth that cannot be disproved, people shy away from that person no matter how great or lowly or weak or powerful he may be. As Jesus said; 43 I have come in My Father's name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. John 5:43
But why settle for less then the whole truth? Why settle for waiting till the end where you get to the door, bang on it, and get the answer; “Get away from me you workers of iniquity!”?
Well, you don’t have to. I don’t care what cult you belong to, or how many generations your family have been serving and slaving for a denomination, or a sect, or a ‘Way’, if you have that true desire to know the Lord, I mean that one True and Only God, you can. Unless you pull up a chair or a bed and retire, you WILL find the Spirit or the Spirit will find you, even hell itself cannot prevail against it.
I didn’t say this, God said it. And if God said it, then you better believe that He will not rest until His Son has you in His arms. Matt 7:7-11 "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.
Who are the ‘Wonderful and nice’ people? Let’s see who is nice according to the Bible? Mark 8:33 33 But when He had turned around and looked at His disciples, He rebuked Peter, saying, "Get behind Me, Satan! For you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men." NKJV Wow! He called Peter, Satan. So how was Gods plan; “18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.” Matt 16:18 going to be fulfilled?
Here is the secret; “For you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”
This is how you find the right church, the right Christians, the right and true ‘Way’. To find others on this ‘narrow path’, you must look at what’s on the persons mind. What is he ‘mindful’ of? Many will say; “we are the closest to the Bible, we follow a narrower path then any other church. If you find a closer followers of the Bible then us, then we will follow them.”
But when they find a church that carved even a closer path to the Bible then they have, they don’t jump to meet them, instead they remain in silence. By showing NO interest, they revealed their fakeness and shows just how ‘cold’ they really are. To ‘follow’ a ‘lie’, you must lie yourself. Matt 24:23-25 23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. NKJV
People have been deceived into thinking that we should just stay where we are, leave everyone alone and God on the last day will sort everything out. Sorry, but that’s the biggest lie of the Devil yet. Mark 2:21-22 21 No one sews a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old garment; or else the new piece pulls away from the old, and the tear is made worse. 22 And no one puts new wine into old wineskins; or else the new wine bursts the wineskins, the wine is spilled, and the wineskins are ruined. But new wine must be put into new wineskins." NKJV
You cannot be a new wine in an old wineskin, meaning you cannot be filled with the New Spirit of Truth, that is ready to burst out and tell all the world of what you know and have, and remain in your old church, with their old worn out traditions and sermons. You wouldn’t want to put on a new peace of cloth on your old worn out clothes, it would just tear away from the rest and make even a bigger hole. Dear friend, get out of those rags and put on a brand new robe and come walk with the Lord into that wedding fest before the door is shut, because; “26 then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.' 27 But He will say, 'I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.'“ Luke 13:26-27
|
|
delh
Junior Member
Posts: 56
|
Post by delh on Jul 24, 2008 11:31:17 GMT -5
In reading through the posts on this subject it is interesting to me that this subject "Are we the only ones right" was posed by those outside this fellowship to show how wrong those in the fellowship are to think this way. Yet in almost every post by the friends the thought comes out it is not for me to judge. God is the only one who can judge who is right and who is wrong.
And then we get post like this last one which clearly shows the author has totally pre judged that those in this precious fellowship are not only wrong in their beliefs, but are preaching false doctrines.
Interesting twist I would say.
delh
|
|
|
Post by ariandgabe on Aug 1, 2008 0:03:18 GMT -5
Christians use the phrase “Judge not, that you be not judged” very frequently, matter of fact, it is one of the most used statement in all of Christianity today. But why not, how else could a person retain the title ‘Christian’ while he remains in his sins? Satan has manufactured a Sheep’s Clothing ‘jumpsuit’ for the masses so anyone can now be a Christian without fault.
‘Judge NOT …’ by Christians is the same as the ‘hand in your face’ gesture used by disobedient children to their parents.
Dear Delh, if a friend of your kid would come to you and ask for your opinion on that; would it be O.K. for him to join the Muslim, or Mormon faith, would you tell him; “go for it, who am I to judge which faith someone wants to join?” Or would you try to convince him of checking out Christianity by reading the Bible and talking to someone with knowledge of it?
You see dear friend, we must daily ‘judge’ with righteous judgment. But then, if you are a 2X2 member, you are not allowed to speak or make such decisions. Only the ‘Workers’ have that authority. You said: “God is the only one who can judge who is right and who is wrong.” So true, and this is why God had it all written in a book called the Bible.
John 12:48 48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him — the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day. NKJV
You see Delh, we are to help the lost find the way and the truth which is Christ. How can you show someone ‘Christ’ if not by the written ‘Words’ that He said in the Bible?
It is this that I pointed out in my letter, that the 2X2’s do not follow the teachings of Christ. And Jesus himself said: “the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day”. Jesus calls us to go out and reach the whole world and tell them to ‘repent’. So how are you going to tell someone to ‘repent’ without making him realize that he is a sinner?
The very word ‘repent’ accuses the person of being a sinner, isn’t that being judgmental? What if a person does not repent? Have you ever told anyone, like your kids for instance, to repent and be baptized or they will end up in h__l? Maybe not. You, as your whole church will just stand back and wait and let God be their judge on the last day. But then, there is verses for those too, who ‘hide their light under a bushel’ or for those that burry their ‘talent’ and give it back to the Lord on ‘That Day’.
Matt 25:24-30 24 "Then he who had received the one talent came and said, 'Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.’ … 26 "But his lord answered and said to him, 'You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. 27 So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. … 30 And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' NKJV
I am not telling you or judging you by what I think, but what God says.
John 7:24 24 Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment." NKJV
It is my duty to take the ‘talent’ He gave me and try my best to make profit with it for my Lord. I don’t want to end up as that ‘lazy servant’ to be cast into outer darkness.
And now I leave the ‘choice’ up to you (all of you). I have done what is expected of me, my wage is the same whether or not you heed my admonishment, which is ‘eternal life’. In Jesus name.
|
|
delh
Junior Member
Posts: 56
|
Post by delh on Aug 4, 2008 11:52:02 GMT -5
Dear ariandgabe,
Sorry but you completely missed the point of my post. I won't bore the other readers by trying to help you understand the point. I would suggest you carefully read what I wrote and quit jumping to unfounded conclusions about which you have no understanding.
You see I have no problem at all with judging righteous judgment. We obviously have very different standards as to what that means however. I feel first and foremost it means that I should apply righteous judgment toward myself. You seem to feel that it should apply more to the other fellow. When I read the word of God it is living because I can apply it to my own life. You seem to be reading it with a pitchfork in hand so you can say wow that really applies to the other fellow - here take that. It is interesting that God created a few like yourself that have no beam in their own eye. The rest of us are thankful that the Lord has shown us the beam that is in our eyes. It gives us a little more compassion on others like ourselves.
you wrote You see Delh, we are to help the lost find the way and the truth which is Christ. How can you show someone ‘Christ’ if not by the written ‘Words’ that He said in the Bible?
ariandgabe, again we are in complete agreement that we are to help others. But again we differ on the approach. My approach is more on showing them Christ by His life relived in mine. Yours apparently from what you have written on this site is to blast them with the 'Words'. I feel a word spoken in season, means that the Spirit will choose the season and will prompt me to have a word that will encourage another in their relationship with God. My feeling is that God is still on the throne and He can get along just fine without my meddling into using the sword of His word to cut ears off. After all does it not say that no man can come to Jesus except His Father draw them. If God is drawing them do you actually believe that your going around and blasting peoples ears off will be of a help? I would sincerely suggest that you examine the talent that you think that you have received. Talents and duty don't mix very well. Talents and God given opportunities do.
delh
|
|
|
Post by ariandgabe on Aug 15, 2008 9:10:06 GMT -5
You are right Delh, as you said:
"Yours apparently from what you have written on this site is to blast them with the 'Words'. I feel a word spoken in season, means that the Spirit will choose the season and will prompt me to have a word that will encourage another in their relationship with God"
I also like what you said: "I would sincerely suggest that you examine the talent that you think that you have received. Talents and duty don't mix very well. Talents and God given opportunities do."
So true my friend, so true. I will wait for the proper timing to speak and not me, but hopefuly the Spirit IN me, (that is if the Spirit of God IS in me? Re reading my posts, I am beginning to wonder!)
Thanks again for the admonishment Delh, I will listen to it, and apply it.
|
|
|
Post by siwells on Oct 7, 2008 20:24:43 GMT -5
"TOPIC" ARE WE THE ONLY ONES RIGHT?" It is adherent to mankind to really want to believe that whatever he finds himself putting any effort in is right and if there's more ways then one to do something....then of course, pride makes mankind want to say "his way" IS RIGHT! And thus we come up with what has so "loosely" been made into a chant perhaps unwittingly by well-meaning persons and that includes workers who should really consider those words better! There's NO man, woman or child that will be able to "give God" that counsel that such and such was the only right one! NO Way! God's thoughts are not our thoughts, His ways are not our ways, and His counsel are past finding out! Solomon gives the the "vanity" of man's wisdom on earth in Eccl. for there's just things that mankind will never do and that's to be able to know God's counsel on the judgment He will mete out when He decides it's time to do so! Now that said, we do have a preponderance of evidence given by Jesus within the four gospels that Jesus IS THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE! So I have to surmise that any man, woman or child that "learns" or "applies themself to learn" about Jesus' and seeks to do what Jesus has set forth in the 3 and half years of His ministry on earth, then perhaps they can have God tell THEM, "Thou good and faithful servant!" Outside of that? Well, it's my understanding also that our judgment will be given according to coming under the blood of Christ......take a piece of crimson glass and put it over a crimson rose and the rose will "look" white behind that "red glass"! Try it, it works! That's the way God will look on those who believe in the powers of Jesus Christ and the promises through faith in Him! With His blood upon our sins that are as scarlett, God will look upon them as white as "fuller's soap!" That's in the Ps. I believe! What "way" is right? Through Jesus, in Jesus, by Jesus....and only Jesus! I mentioned on another post about the apostles telling Jesus that they had forbid a man who was working through using the name of Jesus! And Jesus told them to forbid him not, for who was for Him was certainly not against Him! So it seems to me, maybe it's not the "messenger" that "saves" us but the "message"? God has no use for "pride" in amongst His true children, so to say that this or that "sect" or "belief" system is the only way actually only covers the pride of man in that man likes to think whatever he's putting his time into is the right way! That's pride....not humility! That's JMHOP!
|
|
|
Post by Truely on Oct 20, 2008 9:46:32 GMT -5
"Without a doubt some religions are not Christian and certainly some Christian religions are too far off the wall to even be close to the truth."
I'm not so sure that one can "blame" individuals that may well be found "within" any religion for the apparent lack of Christlikeness! True, there are religions that don't even try to condone Christ much less Christianity! Whereas, there are others who bear the name of "chrisitianity" and as you say have "deviated" so far from the scriptures as to be considered "far from the truth"! But that said, if there are some of their members who are seeking to worship in accordance to what they know and understand, I don't think we can say that those members are without christianity! Can we? I think in the long run, we'll be judged according to how we proceed with what we know, not what we don't know!
|
|
|
Post by pianoman on Feb 4, 2009 10:25:26 GMT -5
This was an excellent post, with many wonderful answers. I want to add my experience to maybe shed some light on some other ideas. Isn't that what this is, an exchange of ideas?
I don't believe that this way is the only way either. Jesus is surely the only way.
People in the truth do not realize, many times, what professing means. It means we profess to follow Jesus in His way.
I have professed that in my life. I do not attend meetings now, and find that other religions do not offer me much.
I think that we need to look at doctrine in this discussion. There are many false doctrines out there, but a false doctrine, does not make for false beliefs.
I have trouble with the division within the fellowship, on issues like remarriage, not following the confronting of those that are wrong, by the church, and the "we are the true way" thinking.
I have been troubled by these attitudes, and know that I need just to ignore them and keep on going in Jesus way. I feel that I am doing that. Emy mentioned fellowship with "them".
I can assure you that if you sat down with me you would have sweet fellowship that is of God.
You would think that I am in Meetings all the time. I am in meetings. Meetings with my Father.
It is very hard to not go to meetings, but I can not agree with certain ones with a lot of power, and I feel that in going, I am agreeing with their wrong attitudes.
As for oneness of spirit, I am not sure but what that is, is just a learned thing. Quietness before a meeting, quietness in conventions, are they not something we have all learned?
I do enjoy going to a meeting early and gathering my thoughts, and having some last few moments of prayer, but now that I don't go, I have more time, and must work harder to get to that point. I don't go to a home on Sunday, but Jesus is still first on my list.
I agree with many here that we need to look inward and make sure we are right with God. When we do this, how can everything else even matter.
The spirit is what is going to end up in Eternity, so the ugliness that is us, will not be there.
A brother in a Sunday morning meeting expressed that "a good friend was one that knew everything about us and liked us anyway".
A worker at convention mentioned sheep following sheep, and not the Shepherd.
There is so much to consider, and so little time, do we need to spend that precious time wondering if we are the only way or not? I think time would be better spent on our inner self.
Delh mentions, how far away can we get? I dated a girl in the 70's that was the daughter of an elder, and she was "professing" only in the sense of the word, she was a total fence walker, and I could not go to meetings, and would not give her up. My bad decision, but how far away are some that attend meetings on a regular basis?
How close are some that have never set foot in a meeting? I am thankful I am not the judge.
I can not imagine sending someone to a lost eternity, or even judging that. If we do this, can we truly be considered Christians? I think not.
I think that if I tend to this little bit of garden, that God has given me, I will be busy for life, and not be able to raise my head to look at others, for fear that weeds may enter my garden.
Thanks for the nice post, and positive thoughts. I hope all will look on my thoughts as positive and thought provoking and not complaining about what isn't there.
Thanks for the opportunity to express...................................................Pianoman
|
|