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Post by seeker on Oct 30, 2007 18:24:32 GMT -5
In another post, I mentioned knowing a number of people (friends and relatives) who have left our fellowship because of various reasons. The reasons most often stated are 1. They feel they were mislead as to beginnings of our fellowship (discussed in the post, “Are we misleading people?”), 2. They feel we believe we are the only ones right.
I often hear this sentiment - that we are right and everyone else is wrong, mainly from older workers and friends. Earlier this month in our Special Meeting, an older visiting brother worker said, “God is not in any other religion”. An older woman in our Sunday morning meeting often says, “People in other religions are sincere, but they are sincerely wrong”. It makes me feel very uneasy and raises my hackles when I hear that kind of talk.
I love the workers, my brethren and the simple, lowly way we follow Jesus. For me, it is the only way because I feel the love and Spirit of God working within and the evidence of that in others around me. But, it would be presumptuous of me to claim to know the mind and will of God, and to limit His ability to work in the lives of people not in our fellowship.
Instead of bad-mouthing other Christian religions, we should tell people what the Gospel has done for us and how much we love our manner of worship. I have been in industrial sales for about 40 years and I have found it is much more acceptable to people and more effective, to promote the advantages of my product rather than to speak disparagingly about those of my competition.
The “we’re-the-only-ones-right” attitude reeks of elitism and exudes a feeling of superiority and is unbecoming of a Christian. There are many Christian religions with this attitude and their people are just as convinced and dogmatic about their rightness as we are. Each religion has their own “proofs” as to why they are right.
For me, our fellowship is the closest on earth to the New Testament Church. Other churches have added to and taken away from what Christ taught and established. But, it is not for me to determine the limits of God’s mercy and who He will and will not have fellowship with. My concern should be - Do I have fellowship with Him and posses the Spirit of Christ?
Would you feel cheated if people of other religions are found among the redeemed in Heaven? I would rejoice.
Seeker
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Post by forgive me on Oct 30, 2007 18:43:06 GMT -5
This hypothetical is like me asking you or others, if they would ''rejoice'', if ''some person'' ...whom they found repulsive was to be in heaven.
Obviously we would all defend our own virtues and say that surely I would not find anyone ''repulsive''.
Bear in mind that even the prophet Jonah, was somewhat grieved that God spared the Ninevites, after God told Jonah to preach that God WAS going to destroy them, [not 'He might', but 'He will'] not an easy message for Jonah to deliver, though he re reluctantly finally did his mission, and went out and pondered why God changed his mind, and God explained why He did .
OH, I do fear that I am the one that is barely going to make it, so maybe many people will be shocked to see that I did. eh?
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Post by Richard McFarland on Oct 30, 2007 23:25:59 GMT -5
seeker wrote:
I can only offer a heart felt "Amen." For myself, this way is the only way but I do also draw the line at proclaiming an exclusive knowledge of the Spirit of Christ.
I always go back to Jesus own words in Mark 9 and Luke 9. Our Lord was speaking to John and the rest of the 12 of meekness and using a little child as the example of how we must receive the Holy Spirit. John asked the Master concerning a man they had seen casting out devils in "thy name" (Christ's), and said "and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us."
Lk:9:50: And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.
The two thieves which were crucified along side of Jesus were either Jew or Gentile. Neither had found in it in his heart to seek Jesus before this time but on the Cross next to the Son of God one of the men did see the Truth, Power and Glory of God through Christ and was repentant and saved. He followed no one during his life but accepted the Lord in the end.
One of the sisters who left the work a few years ago due to health matters yet is still very active and strong in the truth spoke to me once of her confidence of men such as Abraham Lincoln being saved because of his personal fear and respect of God and his life lived for peace and good upon the earth. While I am not as familiar with President Lincoln's personal history as she this does lead me to understand that the exclusivity of the truth may not be necessarily correct.
This attitude of exclusivity and right might even go to weaken the spirit of Humility and indeed most of the Fruits of the Spirit. I cannot see myself placing myself above others for personal satisfaction or gain.
Without a doubt some religions are not Christian and certainly some Christian religions are too far off the wall to even be close to the truth.
In Christ,
Richard
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delh
Junior Member
Posts: 56
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Post by delh on Oct 31, 2007 12:26:46 GMT -5
I realize that this is a very sensitive subject among many. Of course the short answer is no we are not the only ones right, only God is right. Rightness is not measured by numbers who agree together-- one with God is a majority. Only when we are one with Him can we be right in our attitudes, our loves and desires and our spirit.
It is interesting to me that most of God's children can honestly speak of a living relationship with Jesus. They have accepted Him as their Lord and Saviour. He is their King, and they want to be part of His Kingdom. He is their Shepard and they want to be identified with His flock as a sheep that is led and nourished and cared for. He is the head of the body, and they want to be part of the body of Christ, and love and support the other members of the body. They can truly say that they have found the Christ, and when they found Him they also found those who were seeking to serve Him and were of the same Spirit. We can't explain to others what it is to meet others who's spirit resonates with ours, but we can feel it and know it. We understand fully why Jesus said by this shall all men know you are my disciples, by the love you have one for another. Because we have experienced that love given to us and that love that so easily goes out to others of like precious faith.
These are things we know.
But we also know that many have come into this fellowship from what they knew to be "dead" religions. And often times they will speak from their experience of the deadness that was in their hearts when they were in those religions. It is not for me to judge those in other religions, but I listen with interest to the testimonies of my brethren and what has freed them from a wasted life in other religions. I don't transcribe their experience to those remaining behind in those religions, but I wonder why God didn't also bring them out. Perhaps because they were already alive to Him? Or perhaps they were not. It is not for me to decide. I can only truly understand what God has done for me.
I believe it would be good for us all to be very tolerant of those older ones who have experienced a coming out of religious confusion to a glorious fellowship with the God of heaven, His Son and His people. They have a testimony that we should not deny them of. "I was blind and now I see". When I listen to their testimonies I hear words of humility not elitism. I don't hear words of superiority but words of thankfulness of being delivered and wonderment at "why me". "Why was I chosen and all these good people left behind."
We all draw the line of what we feel is acceptable to God and what is not acceptable to God. Many of us are completely satisfied in what we have found in Christ and what we firmly believe to be His Way. We believe Jesus words that if we will be His disciples we must deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow Him. We see no other way to follow Him except we walk as He walked. We believe that he came to do and to teach, and we are thankful that the doing came before the teaching. All that we can do is to uphold in our own lives what we feel is acceptable to God, to do less would show a lack of faith in God, be untrue to ourselves and would be hypocrisy to those who are looking on.
Concerning the futility of speaking against what others are doing in their various religions, I could fully agree. A satisfied customer is the best advertisement. But tolerance of their beliefs and feeling a fellowship of spirit with them are far different things.
Just my opinions Del
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Post by Emy on Nov 1, 2007 17:44:18 GMT -5
<< But tolerance of their beliefs and feeling a fellowship of spirit with them are far different things. >>
I wholeheartedly agree.
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geoff
New Member
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Post by geoff on Nov 2, 2007 10:27:06 GMT -5
I'm one of those that Del referred to as coming from a "dead" religion. In fact I tried many, I forget how many, perhaps 15?. (I'm not sure if I qualify for "old" though!)
But do I think of them as "wrong"?
The question is "Are We the Only Ones Right?" This depends on how we define the word "right".
If we mean "are we the only ones who can be saved?", then clearly not. Scripture does not defend that.
But if we mean are we the only ones that are trying to emulate Jesus and His disciples in a range of practices, then Yes! we could well be the only ones.
But these things we're unique in are not salvation critical. I mean they do not determine a persons salvation or not. Scripture does not defend that.
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delh
Junior Member
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Post by delh on Nov 2, 2007 10:49:41 GMT -5
Perhaps the question is:
How far away can we get from following Jesus, His example and teachings, and still be under the blood?
In the Old Testament they had the law and the question was:
HOW FAR CAN WE GO FROM IT?
In the New Testament we have the Great Shepard and the question is:
HOW CLOSE CAN WE GET TO HIM?
Del
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geoff
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Post by geoff on Nov 2, 2007 15:09:45 GMT -5
Thats an interesting point Del...
Initially at least I guess we are all a long way from God and yet his Blood covers all. The thief on the cross, the woman in adultery, me, we were all once far from God, and yet He died for us all. In some ways how far we were away from following Jesus is irrelevant. Of course, after recieving His grace, we are a new creature and want to follow Him, His ways, His teachings. I'm not so sure about His example, as sometimes thats misinterpreted. For example should we wear sandals to follow His example - surely not, but should we act as He did in forgiving others, of course.
So to asnwer "how far can we go from it?" we need to define "it".
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Post by guest on Nov 2, 2007 15:29:08 GMT -5
Thats an interesting point Del... Of course, after recieving His grace, we are a new creature and want to follow Him, His ways, His teachings. I'm not so sure about His example, as sometimes thats misinterpreted. For example should we wear sandals to follow His example - surely not, but should we act as He did in forgiving others, of course. So to asnwer "how far can we go from it?" we need to define "it". In manner of dress, like many things, it is a matter of 'moderation' and then if it is godly . I think a lot of these questions can be answered by prayer, and certainly wearing sandals might work real well in some places, but other places , maybe not so well, jmo.
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Post by nancye on Nov 10, 2007 3:16:45 GMT -5
Simply put, if we're born again of His Spirit and continue to walk in the Spirit we're going to be right with God. We're accountable because we have had revelation THROUGH His Spirit........
Each is accountable to what he or her has been shown. The Lord knows........ We don't have to know just how it is for someone else. We're accountable for ourselves before God.
I think of Romans 14 the last verses NIV:
:22 ..."Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. :23 But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, (referring to the controvery over eating food offered to idols) because his eating is not from faith; and everthing that does not come from faith is sin."
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Post by Joe on Nov 11, 2007 8:00:47 GMT -5
I really enjoyed reading all the post.
I think there are some within our fellowship who are living dead religion... I was one at one time... and others have told me that they didn't have the true Spirit from Heaven within at one time.
In my experience it came little by little... not as a great light switching on... one day it was like I saw the complete picture.
Was just visiting with a lady yesterday that was looking back and thinking how little she has grown and realized her priorities were not right. She wants to get closer to God. She currently does so much for so many, but feels she isn't doing what is right for herself and feels she must change or her children will not see the real life within and want to follow that.
A few years ago the answer to this question came to me while talking with a worker. He was saying that although some preach that this is the only way, he could not but would as delh stated, point out the good of the Kingdom. The thought came to me... this may or may not be the only right way, but for me it is because the revelation that it was, came from God. However, I understand that even that is my revelation, and my revelation is not your revelation, and I can not give mine to you, but you have to get it directly from God.
Does believing that this is the only right way foster elitism? NO. How can humility and elitism dwell together? If one accuses us of elitist attitudes, that person may be feeling a wrong spirit and we then need to analyze our own spirit and see if we have the right spirit. They may also just feel condemned and be rebelling from it.
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Post by nancye on Nov 11, 2007 16:46:43 GMT -5
I agree that being taught by God's Spirit is a gradual experience. And not every one is at the same point of experience in life's journey. We know each journey is not identical. I do remember hearing, and I connected with the thought, that God's Spirit is limitless and we as individuals can limit or increase how much we actually receive.
Anyway we're glad to have received the "earnest" of Spirit. We're glad to understand that we have been "sealed" by His Spirit. I would like it if anyone would care to explain how that all is a little further. I haven't looked at other translations of "earnest" and "sealed".
Also remember hearing at conv one time that when Christ returns for His own, it is His Spirit within us that will be drawn up to Himself. As a magnet works. That it's like either His Spirit is within or it isn't, and that's the key......
And don't you just yearn sometimes that a loved one could understand what is understood by one's self and have concern because they just don't seem to? And like you said, Joe, we know that revelation from God has to come directly from Him. There's nothing like having true fellowship in the Spirit.......... Am glad when others of faith share what's been revealed to them. And that there's possibility for getting the same for one's self.
And no, humility and "elitism" don't dwell together........
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Post by stanf on Nov 12, 2007 3:06:59 GMT -5
In time past we had here in Ireland "Hiring Fairs" where young and not so young folk would go looking for work.. If they were successful they would receive a coin and this was known as " Earnest" money and was seen as an unbreakable promise of employment and of full wages to come.. Sorry to just jump in with that but it came into my head as I read the last post....
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Post by Joe on Nov 12, 2007 9:22:43 GMT -5
Thank you Stan for your addition... I like that... and you are not jumping in... you are adding to.
This does speak to me of a small amount of something to come. It says that Jesus had the Spirit without measure, meaning that his Spirit was complete.
So, I went to the Strong's and looked it up... Of Hebrew origin; a pledge, that is, part of the purchase money or property given in advance as security for the rest:—earnest.
I like to think of that Spirit within... being a little part of Heaven in us. Isn't that wonderful to actually have something of Heaven dwelling in us? God is so merciful. I can't imagine what life would be like without it. Just think how much better Heaven will be with so much more of it that we can not even measure it.
Makes me think of those words of that hymn... Seeking for a better country, Pilgrims, we are marching on; God is calling, we will follow where the Master's feet have gone. And then the words that I have posted below... that is added to each post.... It will be worth it all, when we see Jesus; Life's trials will seem so small, when we see Christ; One glimpse of His dear face all sorrow will erase, so bravely run the race, till we see Christ.
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geoff
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Post by geoff on Nov 12, 2007 15:01:30 GMT -5
The original question was "Are we the only ones right?".
Thinking about this recently, I wondered if there's much point in asking this question. Its quite a good question (it seems to me) to ask "Am I saved?"
But as soon as we use the word "right", we introduce a comparison between ourselves and others, a thing that Jesus didn't encourage us to do.
When we use the word "right" we introduce the thought of saved by our own efforts (some call this saved by works, but we know that works are a necessary part of salvation). "Right" implies that we are doing things that are morally superior to others, or perhaps more doctrinally pure? But perhaps a better thought is to ask if we are being obedient.
Clearly God asks different things of different people. So to do what another is doing exactly isn't possible. (eg: we can't all be workers) But we can all obey what God asks us individually. That is obedience, rather than "doing whats right".
The word "we" in the question could be interpreted many ways. I assumed it to mean (in this context) our fellowship. By this do we mean that we are all on an equal footing? All doing the same, a Unified mass to be compared to others? If so, then I think the question lacks again. We are not all the same, a unified mass of sameness, we are all at different stages of our walk with God. I look at others (perhaps most others) and wonder at their relationship with God, it seems so much closer than mine. So who is "we" ?
I can only really speak for "me".
So, I'd re-word the question:
Am I the only obedient one?
And in so doing, I stumble again. Who am I to ask this? Who am I comparing myself with...? So I reword it again...
Am I obedient?
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