Deity of Christ

[nathanb]

Do you believe Jesus Christ is God the Son or the Son of God?

Do you believe Jesus Christ is 100% God/Divine and 100% human?

[Richard McFarland]

Yes, I do and the message on your website has helped to clear up much confusion in my Faith.

Thank you, Nathan.

Peace In Him,

Richard

[nathanb]

admin said:

Yes, I do and the message on your website has helped to clear up much confusion in my Faith.

Thank you, Nathan.

Peace In Him,

Richard

Thanks, for your kind words. I first heard about Jesus was Yahweh/Jehovah God in the Old Testament from a worker Leo Stancliff in 1978 on the island of Guam. At first I was confused at what Leo said, how could that be? Jesus was born only 2,000 yrs ago how could he existed in the Old Testament as Yahweh God?

Then one day it came so clear to me when I was reading in (John 8:1-52-59) where Jesus gave the Jews some revelation of His existence as God (the Son/Yahweh God) before he begotten as the Son of Man with the help from the Holy Spirit and Mary.

The Jews said to Jesus, "Thou art NOT yet 50 yrs old, and has thou seen Abraham (died 2,000 yrs ago)? Jesus said unto them, "Verily, Verily, I say unto you, before! Abraham was born, I AM (Yahweh God).

Then took they up stones to cast at him, but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple.....

~~~ I AM: A solemnly emphatice declaration echoing God's great affirmation in (Exodus 3:14; 6:35; 24:28). Jesus did NOT say "I was" but "I am" expressing the eternity of his being and his oneness with the Father (John 1:1).

The Jews could NOT interpret Jesus' claim as other than "BLASPHEMY" for which stoning was the proper penalty (Leveticus 24:16). (New International Version Bible Study)

[deanneswenson]

I was witness to an interesting visit with Tharold Sylvester, our local workers, and some Apostolic friends of mine regarding this topic.

Jesus is part of 'the godhead fully'...... 100% divine and 100% human.

But the problem with the Apostolic church is they believe that Jesus was God (the Father) AND God the Son. Not two separate individuals, who are the same, so 'one'. I asked them, "How you can explain Stephen, when he looked up into heaven and saw Jesus standing by the right hand of God?" Their response was "That was just the empty body of Jesus, waiting for God to step back into when he returns to earth."

Your reference to John: I found that reading the gospel of John, and the epistles really helps clarify this. It was rather a sad experience, as the lady I worked with went to several meetings and convention. She said about our sister workers: "Their light just shines from their lives". But after all that exposure she said: "If it just weren't that you don't believe in God and Jesus being Only One, I'd join your church." Sad to be so blinded.

Thanks for the discussion.

Deanne

[davidn]

Well I have joined this board! Not sure how I will handle it...but I will give it the benefit of the doubt at this stage!!

To answer the question about the deity of Christ. I get this one quite a bit from people who are questioning. I hope I have the correct answer. I have thought long and hard about how to put into words the things we have understood for a very long time.

There is NO doubt that Christ is divine. He is the Son of God. The Godhead consists of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The bible tells us that Jesus was present there with the Father at creation. Someone once told us that God was so pleased with His Son that he created the earth and man with the idea of having heaven populated with souls who were like Him. Each one on earth is given the choice to serve God or Satan. Those who serve God in spirit and in truth will be in heaven.

I think there is extreme confusion in theological circles. Some seem to believe the Arian heresy and some accept the Trinitarian tenets. God tells us that a child can understand the truth. And this is so. A child understands that God created everything that we can see. A child understands that God has a Son named Jesus who was with him in eternity and was on earth as a man and is in heaven again.

Some try to say that when Jesus was on earth, heaven was empty because Jesus is God. This is untrue because God the Father and the Holy Spirit were still in heaven. Reading John 17 makes this very clear.

An experience that I went through..... a person raised as a Branhamite came to meetings for over a year. Even to convention. At last they tried to explain to me that we had the Trinity all wrong and it is a pity because they felt we had a lot of light! They tried to explain it to me this way. There is one David N. But there is David N the vet, there is David N the husband, and there is David N the father. Whilst I am all three of these at the same time I am still only one. This was made "clearer" by explaining that water has three phases, steam, water, ice depending on temperature and we can only have one phase at a time. (I asked if they had ever seen ice cubes in a glass of water.) Anyway I tried to to understand their point of view but ended it by mentioning John 17 and saying that David the Vet would certainly never pray to David the Father.

It is amazing that this is such a huge issue to so many. But the Bible says that these things will be hidden from the wise and prudent and revealed unto babes. I want to stay a babe!

I have researched the Council of Nicaea, as best I can. When I read the tenets or creed there is nothing I cannot agree with. But when I try to read what some denomination has said about it, all I see is confusion.

Now, I think the reason some say that we do not believe in the divinity of Christ is simply this. We often refer to "God". We actually mean God the Father. But we never refer to Jesus as God because in our minds "God"means the Father. And the New Testament uses this same terminology. (Maybe the Old Testament refers to God as the Godhead.) One thing that is clear is that it says to pray to the Father in the name of the Son and our petitions will be granted. That is why we usually start our prayers with "Dear Father" and end with "In Jesus' Name" or "For Jesus' sake".

I notice no one accuses us of not believing that Jesus was fully man. In fact, there was a problem where a worker believed that Jesus COULD not sin and therefore we cannot hope to attain to his example. In fact, we appreciate that He could have sinned but He did not sin. And that is what makes us love Him so much.

yes I think it is well worded to say that Jesus when he was on earth was never less than God and never more than human. But we don't need to put these things into words to understand.

Hope I have worded all of this correctly.

[seeker]

Christ was tempted in all points like we. His 40 days in the wilderness subjected him to any temptation, and probably more, we will ever be tempted with. You cannot tempt God, so it was Jesus' flesh that was tempted. That, to me, proves he was a man and could have sinned if he had given in to temptation. I cannot find a scriptural basis for the belief that Jesus could not have sinned.

[philsmiley]

But he was there from the beginning... before man was created. Meaning although 100% devine also 100% human.. and hence the temptations.

[seeker]

I agree, 100% man, 100% God. Do you agree that He could have sinned? If He could could not have, then it wouldn't have been temptation.

[nathanb]

Seeker wrote: I agree, 100% man, 100% God.

1) Do you agree that He could have sinned? If He could NOT have, then it would have been temptation.

~~ Jesus, the Son of man... the human side could have sinned but the divine side of Jesus could NOT have sinned because He is God (the Son). Jesus is 100% human and 100% divine because He comes from heaven.

It tells us the the book of Hebrews Jesus, the Son of Man the human side was TEMPTED in all points as we are (Hebrews 2:14-18; 4:14-16).

[seeker]

I think we are in agreement. My point is if Jesus did not have the capacity to sin, like some contend, then He could not be tempted. You have to have some need or desire for something to be tempted by it. For instance, if someone offered me a cigar, I would not consider it a temptation because I have absolutely no desire to smoke one. There are plenty of things in life that are not good for me that I do desire and are temptations.

[Alan C]

I agree absolutely

[Pamela McKenzie]

Yes...I do believe that Jesus is fully God and Fully man. The scriptures I found to back this up are:

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Love & Peace in Christ;
Pam

[geoff]

nathanb said:

Do you believe Jesus Christ is God the Son or the Son of God?

Do you believe Jesus Christ is 100% God/Divine and 100% human?

I think that the question is faulty. In the first line the word "or" restricts answers to one OR the other.

But I think that Jesus is God the Son, AND the Son of God. Both these seem appropriate descriptions.

[nathanb]

geoff said:

nathanb said:

Do you believe Jesus Christ is God the Son or the Son of God?

Do you believe Jesus Christ is 100% God/Divine and 100% human?

I think that the question is faulty. In the first line the word "or" restricts answers to one OR the other.

But I think that Jesus is God the Son, AND the Son of God. Both these seem appropriate descriptions.

I agree with you 100% Geoff! Jesus is Both God the Son, and the Son of God. He is also the Son of man.

I have read on different message boards some believe Jesus is NOT God the Son, he is the Son of God and there is a big differences to some.

[Jesse Lackman]

Don't know if Jesus was 100% of each.

Don't know if it matters.

How about us?

Are we 100% man 100% divine, or some mix of the two?

Some day we can be 100% divine when the resurrection body is added to the resurrection spirit, but what about during this life?