Post by otto2 on Oct 4, 2008 13:12:32 GMT -5
Thank you not unreasonable, for your most reasonable of posts; and you too Joe for your insights into the Amish.
I must confess I was being slightly mischievous when I referred to the Amish. It was because the previous posts seemed to be harking back to the position of the abstemious lifestyle being the indicator of the presence of the Spirit, and if a person was to question some aspects of that abstemious lifestyle, then that would indicate a lack of the Spirit dwelling within. I therefore chose to use the Amish as an extreme example of that type of lifestyle, believing that the previous posters would not in fact believe the Amish to be fully endowed with the Spirit of the Lord, and therefore negate some of that argument.
I apologise if that seems somewhat devious; and I must also confess I know little about the Amish other than that they live a particularly abstemious lifestyle.
I'm not sure where to go from here! My frustration stems from the once firm assertion, (and now possibly less so) that the f&w's have the only true way and everyone else is only part way on the journey, and that some are being deceived; and others are on the way to being drawn to the f&w's.
My posts referring to the rules etc are only to point out that the f&w's have just the same problems as everyone else. It is a far from perfect way; and is subject to change, along with the ways of more mainstream churches. But because it's the way the friends have chosen then they must protect it at all costs.
My problem is that the f&w's do not really believe that anyone else can have the same fellowship with each other in other churches, that they have in their church. That it cannot really be as true, or as sincere, or as real, and if a person claims that it is then; oh well, the devil deceives as an angel of light!
It is true that on profession of faith in Jesus one's life must change. Things that we once delighted in become faded; and in some cases abhorrant. Things we once had little time for become the most important things; and they become the guiding principles of our whole life.
There is a tension in deciding exactly how we live our lives and we need to exercise judgement; but it is not as simple as making rules to keep us on track. A television is a good example, the vast majority of what is screened is dross; but the news, and for me, the weather, and nature programs; and possibly the occasional costume drama are all acceptable viewing; and not at all evil or sinful in themselves. We should exercise the same judgement as when we pick up a daily newspaper. The good and the bad, along with the glossy magazines, are all on the same rack or shelves; and we exercise judgement as to which ones we pick. It is the same with dress and hairstyle; and many of the other things we seemingly allow to divide us. It is not a matter of, these things are permissable; and these are not, and if you think they are you have got it wrong.
We are all wrong, much of the time, and there will be a judgement; but not by you or me.
I must confess I was being slightly mischievous when I referred to the Amish. It was because the previous posts seemed to be harking back to the position of the abstemious lifestyle being the indicator of the presence of the Spirit, and if a person was to question some aspects of that abstemious lifestyle, then that would indicate a lack of the Spirit dwelling within. I therefore chose to use the Amish as an extreme example of that type of lifestyle, believing that the previous posters would not in fact believe the Amish to be fully endowed with the Spirit of the Lord, and therefore negate some of that argument.
I apologise if that seems somewhat devious; and I must also confess I know little about the Amish other than that they live a particularly abstemious lifestyle.
I'm not sure where to go from here! My frustration stems from the once firm assertion, (and now possibly less so) that the f&w's have the only true way and everyone else is only part way on the journey, and that some are being deceived; and others are on the way to being drawn to the f&w's.
My posts referring to the rules etc are only to point out that the f&w's have just the same problems as everyone else. It is a far from perfect way; and is subject to change, along with the ways of more mainstream churches. But because it's the way the friends have chosen then they must protect it at all costs.
My problem is that the f&w's do not really believe that anyone else can have the same fellowship with each other in other churches, that they have in their church. That it cannot really be as true, or as sincere, or as real, and if a person claims that it is then; oh well, the devil deceives as an angel of light!
It is true that on profession of faith in Jesus one's life must change. Things that we once delighted in become faded; and in some cases abhorrant. Things we once had little time for become the most important things; and they become the guiding principles of our whole life.
There is a tension in deciding exactly how we live our lives and we need to exercise judgement; but it is not as simple as making rules to keep us on track. A television is a good example, the vast majority of what is screened is dross; but the news, and for me, the weather, and nature programs; and possibly the occasional costume drama are all acceptable viewing; and not at all evil or sinful in themselves. We should exercise the same judgement as when we pick up a daily newspaper. The good and the bad, along with the glossy magazines, are all on the same rack or shelves; and we exercise judgement as to which ones we pick. It is the same with dress and hairstyle; and many of the other things we seemingly allow to divide us. It is not a matter of, these things are permissable; and these are not, and if you think they are you have got it wrong.
We are all wrong, much of the time, and there will be a judgement; but not by you or me.