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Post by boazlady on Oct 1, 2007 23:38:20 GMT -5
Could obedience be discribed as works? Can we have salvation if we obey not? I was thinking more of the man on the cross and wondering if he had faith- I would think that obedience is works, Jesus said that "we know that we love him, if we keep his commandment"! obedience would be works, I would believe. When we wanted our children to obey us, it would be an action, a work so to speak... Why wouldn't we obey, if we love Him,with all our hearts - and love is the main ingredient in serving the Lord, and followin Jesus. Love is the Kingdoms banner.... I believe the man on the cross had faith by what he said,. (not verbatim) he said that they deserved what they "got", but Jesus did not- he did nothing amiss..he believed in Jesus - that Jesus would have a kingdom Lu 23 v42 "And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom". He believed that He was truly a king...coming into His kingdom.
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Post by Alan C on Oct 2, 2007 2:53:35 GMT -5
Could obedience be discribed as works? Can we have salvation if we obey not? I was thinking more of the man on the cross and wondering if he had faith- I would think that obedience is works, Jesus said that "we know that we love him, if we keep his commandment"! obedience would be works, I would believe. When we wanted our children to obey us, it would be an action, a work so to speak... Why wouldn't we obey, if we love Him,with all our hearts - and love is the main ingredient in serving the Lord, and followin Jesus. Love is the Kingdoms banner.... I believe the man on the cross had faith by what he said,. (not verbatim) he said that they deserved what they "got", but Jesus did not- he did nothing amiss..he believed in Jesus - that Jesus would have a kingdom Lu 23 v42 "And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom". He believed that He was truly a king...coming into His kingdom. I wonder did the man have the time to love Jesus? Did have a chance to have faith in Jesus?
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Post by boazlady on Oct 2, 2007 3:28:28 GMT -5
Did have a chance to have faith in Jesus?[/u]? When Jesus called Simon and Andrew, they were fishing, they IMMEDIATELY left their nets and followed Jesus! Why they must have believe him and had faith in Jesus, also James and John were repairing their nets with their father, and when Jesus called them, they also left off helping their father and immediately followed Jesus. All things are possible with God, He can immediately open people's eyes, their hearts; so I believe that the thief had faith in Jesus, he observed what Jesus was doing even while on the cross and he told the other thief that they deserved what they got ...but Jesus did not deserve it, He did nothing amiss.
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Post by nathanb on Oct 2, 2007 9:12:58 GMT -5
~~~ Faith wthout works! is presumptuous; Faith with works is precious.
When we believe in Christ as Savior and Lord, we long to express our faith through some act of love. The apostle Paul wrote of "faith working through LOVE" (Gal. 5:16). We demontrate what we believe, NOT only by what we SAY! but also by what we DO! The genuineness of our faith, therefore, is PROVEN by our works.
James 2:14-24 What does it profit, my brethren, though a man say he has faith, and have NOT works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, and one of you say unto them, "Depart in peace, and ye warmed and filled; nothwithstanding, ye give them NOT those things which are needful to the body; what does it profit?
Even so faith, if it had NOT works! is dead, being ALONE.
Yea a man say, thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith with my WORKS.
But will thou know, O vain man, that Faith without Works! is dead? Was NOT Abraham, our father "justified" by works, when he offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how Faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect.... Ye see then how that by works! a man is justified, and NOT by Faith only.
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Post by gene on Oct 5, 2007 13:42:20 GMT -5
The seven spirits, which are God’s eyes on the earth, and the four cherubim who accompany them never rest and never stop seeking lost souls. The Holy Spirit always prepares the good ground for the seed of the gospel. The good thief was found, and I believe his heart was prepared by the Holy Spirit before he ever climbed Calvary’s hill. All Jerusalem was aware of Jesus and His upcoming crucifixion, as was the good thief. It’s from his few words on his cross that I’m led me to believe what I’m writing.
The words of the evil thief remind me of the words of Satan when Jesus was tempted in the wilderness: “If thou be Christ …,” and I expect that it was Satan who put those words into his mouth, trying to make Jesus doubt. The good thief immediately spoke up in Jesus’ defense, declaring that Jesus was an innocent man. Certainly he had already been considering the life of Jesus before this time in declaring that Jesus had done nothing wrong. I believe that the good thief had already had a revelation from God that Jesus was the Son of God. This man also had a vision of the resurrection, much as Abraham did when he was ready to kill Isaac. He knew that Jesus was dying, but he also understood that at some point in time, Jesus would be returning as King to reign among the living. He requested that Jesus remember him when that time came. He knew that he was dying as well, and he was asking in terms of his own resurrection.
Since the time of Eve, all natural births involve labor and the pain associated with it. There’s also a time to be born. If labor is too short or too long, the baby may not do well. All spiritual births also come with pain and labor. God knows the time for us to be born. No one can deny that a tremendous amount of labor went into saving this good thief, but the work was done by the Holy Spirit and not by the man. God put into this man both faith and the power to believe, just as He does into all His children who are born of the Spirit. What did the thief do? What did WE do? All any of us could ever have done was to submit to God’s claim on our lives and present Him a broken and contrite heart. Works do accompany salvation, but the works are not of us. We are all the recipients of God’s love and His grace.
gene
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Post by Jesse Lackman on Oct 16, 2007 22:19:12 GMT -5
Faith is an action word.
Imagine someone coming into the room where you are and saying, "there is a bomb set to blow in the next room if you want to live get out!
If you believe you will most likely get out. If you say you believe but dont get out - you're dead.
Faith without works is dead.
James 2
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Post by nathanb on Oct 18, 2007 0:48:20 GMT -5
Faith is an action word. Imagine someone coming into the room where you are and saying, "there is a bomb set to blow in the next room if you want to live get out! If you believe you will most likely get out. If you say you believe but dont get out - you're dead. Faith without works is dead. James 2 ;D VERY good analogy about Faith=Action... there, Jesse.
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fire
New Member
Posts: 18
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Post by fire on Oct 19, 2007 2:39:18 GMT -5
faith is the vehicle by which God bestows his gift of grace.
just as a straw is the vehicle by which we enjoy a delicious milkshake.
it's not about the straw, its about the milkshake - just as it's not about our faith, its about his gift of grace.
as for works - our effort and works play no roll in being blessed with God's grace. our godly works are simply the natural offspring of a holy transformation, which is not of our own making. our works can never be used as payment or some sort of merit to earn or work our way into the good grace of God.
Faith is never faith if it is not proven by the natural offspring (godly works) of being transformed into followers of Christ.
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Post by otto on Oct 19, 2007 10:57:22 GMT -5
faith is the vehicle by which God bestows his gift of grace as for works - our effort and works play no roll in being blessed with God's grace. our godly works are simply the natural offspring of a holy transformation, which is not of our own making. our works can never be used as payment or some sort of merit to earn or work our way into the good grace of God. Maybe homeowners will not understand the analogy of ''rent due''...but it is similar to making a house payment , also, so both of these analogies involve a concept known as a ''grace period''. I love this analogy, as it seems precisely what God is offering us, a ''grace period''....The grace period exists, whether or not we were able to make our payment/rent, yet many people will take advantage of the grace period, because it has its purpose. It's purpose is to make the 'ower' aware that the 'owee' has a bit of mercy and leinience toward circumstance beyond the control of the 'ower'...and offers a period of time wherein the just and true 'penalty' will not be extracted, but in the failure of making an acceptable agreement {peace} with the 'owee' the 'ower' will face the full effect of the written contract, after the grace period expires.... Today, we are living in this 'grace period' ....and we need to be making appropriate ''arrangements'' for what we owe to our Savior { our complete unselfish love}.....imo.
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fire
New Member
Posts: 18
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Post by fire on Oct 19, 2007 11:26:33 GMT -5
Everything I owe has been paid in full on my behalf by our Lord Jesus Christ. PAID IN FULL! How wonderful is that?
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Post by otto on Oct 19, 2007 11:39:01 GMT -5
Everything I owe has been paid in full on my behalf by our Lord Jesus Christ. PAID IN FULL! How wonderful is that? Then I guess you do not need the period of grace, my friend. Personally, I am glad to be still under grace, and time to buy oil for my lamp....did Jesus give you all the oil you need, or were the wise virgins just spending there money for oil for kicks?
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selah
Junior Member
Currently Reading 1 Samuel
Posts: 77
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Post by selah on Oct 21, 2007 18:56:42 GMT -5
Hi Otto,
I hope you won't mind to much if I reply to what you wrote:
Oil is symbolic of the Holy Spirit. Without the indwelling Holy Spirit, without regeneration, we are not equipped to meet the bridegroom when He comes. Yes, Jesus did give me all the oil I need. The wise virgins were prepared. The foolish virgins hoped to get oil from the wise virgins. But, the Holy Spirit cannot be given from one person to the next...He comes from God alone. We can tell each other about Him, but one must receive Him from God the Father....by simply asking.
And yes, He is all sufficient.
Blessings, Linda
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Post by otto on Oct 22, 2007 12:12:21 GMT -5
Hi Otto, I hope you won't mind to much if I reply to what you wrote: Oil is symbolic of the Holy Spirit. Without the indwelling Holy Spirit, without regeneration, we are not equipped to meet the bridegroom when He comes. Yes, Jesus did give me all the oil I need. The wise virgins were prepared. The foolish virgins hoped to get oil from the wise virgins. But, the Holy Spirit cannot be given from one person to the next...He comes from God alone. We can tell each other about Him, but one must receive Him from God the Father....by simply asking. And yes, He is all sufficient. Blessings, Linda Parables are earthly stories with a spiritual message. {spoken by Jesus} I simply disagree with your interpretation of the spiritual message that the parable of the 10 virgins conveys. Thanks for sharing your viewpoint anyways. It seems like a analogy to say that we all can understand the oil to be the spirit, and not equally understand that there is a 'cost' to be paid to receive either the physical 'oil' or the spiritual 'spirit'.
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selah
Junior Member
Currently Reading 1 Samuel
Posts: 77
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Post by selah on Oct 22, 2007 13:43:52 GMT -5
Thanks otto,
We can agree to disagree, and I enjoy the freedom we have here to share our thoughts regardless.
I believe the oil (Spirit) is costly....SO costly that we aren't able to pay the price. Jesus Christ paid the price that enables us to be regenerated in the Spirit....to be filled with the oil, so that our lamps light the way to the bridegroom.
I believe that's what God's grace is about. I don't see it as a "grace period," but more of a generosity of mercy in the blood of His Son, providing the very thing we cannot provide for ourselves, the birth of the Spirit in us, without which the door to the wedding banquet will be shut to us, as it was to the foolish virgins.
Blessings, Linda
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Post by otto on Oct 22, 2007 14:09:24 GMT -5
Thanks otto, We can agree to disagree, and I enjoy the freedom we have here to share our thoughts regardless. I believe the oil (Spirit) is costly....SO costly that we aren't able to pay the price. Jesus Christ paid the price that enables us to be regenerated in the Spirit....to be filled with the oil, so that our lamps light the way to the bridegroom. I believe that's what God's grace is about. I don't see it as a "grace period," but more of a generosity of mercy in the blood of His Son, providing the very thing we cannot provide for ourselves, the birth of the Spirit in us, without which the door to the wedding banquet will be shut to us, as it was to the foolish virgins. Blessings, Linda Why did the wise virgins, imply their was a 'cost'? Perfect Obedience comes at a great cost, to us as well as Jesus. Jesus learned perfect obedience, by the many things that He suffered, {for our sakes, mind U}
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