Are the 2x2s the apostles today?

[delh]

An interesting discussion on apostles. I would agree with Joe that it really doesn't matter whether we call the workers apostles or not. It is obvious from all that has been written here that it TOTALLY depends on how you want to define the word apostle. Some cleave to the facts about whether they saw the Lord or not, Some feel that they must possess some magical powers. Some feel that Jesus (in his days in a fleshly body I assume) must have sent them forth. And from that reasoning since he no longer is in a fleshly body cannot still be sending apostles forth. Some would argue to the contrary that Jesus sending them forth is not constrained by Him being in a fleshly body.

My friends we are simply arguing semantics here. It really isn't that important.

delh

[ariandgabe]

I dissagree, it IS important to be labeled an Apostle, no?
Look at the 'authority' that is placed on Apostles and Prophets. Look at William Irvine and other selfproclaimed prophets, look at how it can change a man and change others to follow the more, someone claiming such authority. There is an unseen 'power' behind every false Apostle and Prophet. (Yes, magical powers)

Read Rev and see what happens when the 'Beast' claims to be God. We must not let people just claim something or accept such title unless it is obviously Gods will.
This is why we have the mess in Christianity that we have today, because; 'it isn't important' to the believers anymore.

[siwells]

There are only "12 Apostles" by the Bibles' references. Jesus appointed the first 12 and one of them was a "devil" according to Jesus' own words. BUT to fulfill "prophecy" of the Old Testament was the "betrayer" chosen as an "Apostle", but also "prophecy" of the Old Testament says that "another his bishopric would take". Now it was the "residual 11" that "cast 'their' lots" to fulfill that "prophecy" BUT it was the spirit of God that "chose" Saul of Tarsus, thus the now known "Paul" said of himself that he was an "Apostle" out of time! So does God see Matthias as "one" of the "12 Apostles"? The Bible does not declare that, BUT Jesus told the original "12" that they would sit in judgment of the 12 tribes of Israel. Now at the time of Paul's induction into the "Apostleship", it was God's plan that Paul would be the "Apostle" to open the "gospel of Christ" to the Gentile Nation....so there has to be "One of the 12 Apostles" that will be sitting in judgment of the Gentile nation. I think if one considers all that God ordained and brought about, the question would perhaps be the largest "IF Paul is not of the '12 Apostles' mentioned that are the "foundation" of New Jerusalem. But there is NO specific declaration of that at all! So perhaps it's like Jesus told Peter when Peter questioned about what was to happen to John....essentially Jesus told Peter it really wasn't his business to know that and it wasn't conducive to Peter's work of apostleship, but that Peter should follow Jesus and leave it at that! We know only by Biblical fact that Matthias was chosen by men casting their lots, but Paul was chosen by the Holy Spirit! That's the main difference and Paul himself said he was an Apostle out of his time!
NO, the workers ARE NOT to be considered the same as the 12 Apostles. NOr were the 72 sent forth either. The 12 Apostles were Jesus' constant companions. They were the bridegroom closest friends at most given times. They were embued with power from on high because of that "close proximity" to Jesus in His life....thus they can be accounted as the "foundation" aligning themselves with the chief cornerstone which is Jesus and thus they can be figured to be found worthy to sit in judgment of the twelve tribes as Jesus said they would! New Jerusalem has her gates always open, so that's being open to every "breed" of man, woman or child from the New Earth. NO?
And Judas Iscariot's office was given to another, and I fully believe that Paul, being appointed by the Holy Ghost)Jesus if you will) that he fills Judas' bishopric. None other can fill it!
The workers are just that...workers, servants.....what do they have that friends don't have.....time to be spent in prayer and Biblical meditation! I heard that from the platform a few years ago! To get the mindset that workers are apostles gets to making some think they're something they are not. For they don't quite understand that even the 72 Jesus sent forth WERE NOT considered "Apostles" by Jesus! Though they had some of the same powers, it's the "closeness" of the relationship the 12 had is the difference and thus the "difference" in the "witnessing" and "teaching" after Jesus' ascension. Simple deduction is all! The workers can be respected through the fact they give their time to be "bible students" and able to "teach" because that is their "field of expertise". No different then other "fields of labor" such as architects, doctors, nurses, and yes, even lawyers! Each deserve the respect for that devotion to their field of interest and expertise!