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Post by philsmiley on Sept 26, 2007 15:33:07 GMT -5
Hi there guys
I'm a bit uneasy about asking this because it would seem I am directly revoking a fellow brother.
However it has been on my mind alot in recent years. (I am 19 years old, so not long long time ago.)
I read regularly of our fellowship (the group of people, i.e those preaching the Gospel and those in the home) being referred to as the Truth, with a capital T, or The Way.
I don't know if this is intentional, but in my view Jesus is the Way and the Truth.
Don't get me wrong I know were people are coming from, but in one way it is defining us (the fellowship) as another religion, which I feel is dangerous.
And in another way it is defining the fellowship as the Truth or the Way, yet it is written that no man can enter but through Jesus.
My question is, why do some refer to the fellowship as The Way and the Truth?
Maybe this isn't so clear but I would be interested in others thoughts. Once again I'm not intending to cause offense, and if this post is not what this board is about, please delete it admin!
A fellow brother Phillip
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Post by nathanb on Sept 26, 2007 22:02:05 GMT -5
Hi there guys I'm a bit uneasy about asking this because it would seem I am directly revoking a fellow brother. However it has been on my mind alot in recent years. (I am 19 years old, so not long long time ago.) I read regularly of our fellowship (the group of people, i.e those preaching the Gospel and those in the home) being referred to as the Truth, with a capital T, or The Way. I don't know if this is intentional, but in my view Jesus is the Way and the Truth. Don't get me wrong I know were people are coming from, but in one way it is defining us (the fellowship) as another religion, which I feel is dangerous. And in another way it is defining the fellowship as the Truth or the Way, yet it is written that no man can enter but through Jesus. My question is, why do some refer to the fellowship as The Way and the Truth? A fellow brother Phillip Some refer the fellowship as the Way, the Truth because they believe this fellowship is of God.... Jesus is the Author and Finisher of this fellowship and we have His approval through the Spirit dwelling in ourlives.
Jesus is the Truth and Way to Salvation NOT the workers.
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Post by Richard McFarland on Sept 26, 2007 22:58:44 GMT -5
Phillip,
This board is exactly for what you asked. Questions! Questions which may be answered by Faithful people with knowledge and Spirit and experience in the Truth and who are willing to edify one another in Christ. As written in the New Testament, each of us has our own unique Spiritual gifts. In this age which is seemingly so close to the end times we nave a tool which we can use in a positive way for Christ and His people.
Your question seems to be asked out of confusion and I can easily tell you that even after 37 years there still is sometimes confusion for me. If you ask in truth and in faith you need not fear offending anyone.
Most names given to us come from those who either do not understand or have no other way to refer to us other than the names they have made for us. 2by2's, Black Stockings (very old), the Friends, Go Preachers, etc.
Jesus is the Way and the Truth and the Life. What better way to worship our Lord and Savior than in His on name! When we pray to God, we ask in the name of Jesus Christ. We worship and serve Him in Spirit and Truth. Sometimes confusing terms for some of us who have been in this Way for many years. We often refer to ourselves by The Way or The Truth for lack of a formal name taken for the Church in general. While some of the Workers have been required to register The Truth under official names for reasons involving classification of the Workers as Ministers we do not take or use these "official" names. We could use the name "Christians" as in:
Acts:11:26: And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
This would not set us apart from other churches which use names to identify themselves. By not taking or referring to this Church under an assumed name we can better take the name of Christ Himself into our Heart, Spirit and Service.
I personally do not mind being defined as a religion, or even sometimes even as a cult! Webster's On line Dictionary defines both words:
re·li·gion Function: noun Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Anglo-French religiun, Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back
1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
cult Function: noun Usage: often attributive
1 : formal religious veneration (Profound respect or reverence - RM): worship
2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4 : a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health cults>
5 a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b : the object of such devotion c : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion
By these our Church and even most other Churches and their members can be defined by these broad terms. I take neither as derogatory.
This fellowship is a group of people living in Christ to share the good news of the Truth and Way. We should be careful to not allow ourselves to become more enamored with this fellowship or ministry than Christ Himself! The fellowship and ministry are vital to our growth in Him for edification. The fellowship together can sing praises to God for His goodness and mercy to us and share testimonies of our studies in Him and how He effects our lives. The fellowship and ministry are the way in which God uses some of us to spread the Word and help grow the church for Jesus.
This is about all I can cover concerning your questions for now. I hope that I have not led you into more questions or confusion. Of course my word is not the final word. I have been corrected in the past and hope to be so again if I am ever mistaken in my self sufficiency.
Other views and/or explanations will be appreciated and welcome. I do not intend to answer every post. It is difficult to not offer assistance and I will continue at times. As administrator of this board my main job is to keep it pure, peaceful and edifying for us all. My passion is discussion Christ and all that His life and sacrifice means to us. Please forgive me if I make an "administrative nuisance" of myself!
Love in Christ,
Richard
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Post by davidn on Sept 26, 2007 23:26:43 GMT -5
I usually write it as "the truth". Yes, Jesus is the Truth and the Way and the Life. And I like to think that our fellowship IS Jesus. Anything that is not of Jesus is not the truth. That is why there are different traditions and customs in different places which are not the truth but are observed due to one's culture. We mostly only use the term "the truth" in conversation. When we write, as in letters to one another we seem to refer to our fellowship in more general terms. I have only ever used the term"the truth" when writing on the net. And now I am wondering why that is? Perhaps it is because we are writing as if we are talking here.
But I agree with Phillip, it does seem wrong to see the words The Truth or The Way written as if it were a name. And spray paint, I wonder if others gave us the name "the friends" or did we develop that one ourselves? Just wondering! DLN
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Post by philsmiley on Sept 27, 2007 5:04:07 GMT -5
Thanks for the posts, as I said I know were people are coming from, but I wonder is it just people have become used to saying it, and just continue to say it. Also I think the friends was a name we took upon ourselves, in this part anyway! Maybe its true, when people say humans like an identity! How do you describe someone who is proffessing? (i.e going to meetings, or part of our fellowship), usually by asking one of the following: 1. are they one of the friends? 2. are they proffessing? 3. or do they go to the meetings (or in America, do they go to meeting?) I know that everyone "proffesing" should be in the Way (in Christ), but we can't take that name upon ourselves, as we are almost saying that the fellowship is perfect or devine! Or it is being part of the fellowship that will save us! Maybe we get things in the wrong order? Do we believe that we should meet in the home etc because it will save us. Or do we meet in the home etc, because of what has been shown to us through Jesus? Thanks for everyones thoughts! - Im maybe talking about to many things at once! Phillip
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Post by seeker on Sept 27, 2007 15:29:37 GMT -5
I know some people, including a few relatives, who have left our fellowship because of this issue of the “Way”. Some say we are too hung up on our form of worship. That “The Way”, being identified by a homeless ministry, ministers going out by pairs, and meetings in the home, is often the focal point. I have to honestly say, to some degree, they have a point. When I listen to testimonies in fellowship meetings, often people refer to the Way. By the content of their testimonies, often I understand they are referring to our fellowship, not Jesus-The-Way. It seems to me we can miss the whole point if we rely on the form and not Jesus, the Way, the Truth, and the Life. I believe our form of worship, and our fellowship, follows the simple, lowly way that Jesus intended. But, I would never say it is exclusively right. It is right for me, but I want to concentrate on the teachings of Christ and obtain the spirit he had to others and to our Father.
I know we often use the terms, "The Truth" or "The Way" as shortcut terms for a fellowship without a name. I would like to be careful in how I use these terms and refer to the form as, "our fellowship" and use the "The Truth" and "The Way" for Jesus.
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Post by davidn on Sept 27, 2007 20:40:26 GMT -5
It is a good thing to be sensitive to terminology. And I am sure that if one is exercised along these lines then it is right for them (us) to do it. Personally, I am going to try hard to refer to our fellowship as our fellowship instead of anything that can sound like a name (denomination). Especially now that it has been so clearly pointed out that our fellowship is not Jesus. Previously I have liked to think that the two are synonomous. And anything in our fellowship that is not Jesus is not the Truth or the Way. Any comments on this?
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Post by nathanb on Sept 27, 2007 20:59:05 GMT -5
Thanks for the posts, as I said I know were people are coming from, but I wonder is it just people have become used to saying it, and just continue to say it. Also I think the friends was a name we took upon ourselves, in this part anyway! Maybe its true, when people say humans like an identity! How do you describe someone who is proffessing? (i.e going to meetings, or part of our fellowship), usually by asking one of the following: 1. are they one of the friends? 2. are they proffessing? 3. or do they go to the meetings (or in America, do they go to meeting?) I know that everyone "proffesing" should be in the Way (in Christ), but we can't take that name upon ourselves, as we are almost saying that the fellowship is perfect or devine! Or it is being part of the fellowship that will save us! Maybe we get things in the wrong order? Do we believe that we should meet in the home etc because it will save us. Or do we meet in the home etc, because of what has been shown to us through Jesus? Thanks for everyones thoughts! - Im maybe talking about to many things at once! Phillip We meet in the homes of believers to partake the Eucharist/Thanksgiving= Bread and Wine to commemorate Christ's life, sacrifice, death, and resurrection on the First day of the week.
In the Old Testament God's presence rested in the Temple building at Jerusalem where the children of Israel came to offer their cleansing, sins, forgiveness through animals sacrfices but the day was coming when this will be NO longer needed.
Jesus revealed " A new way to worship God" in spirit and in truth (John 4:1-24) when he talked to the Samaritan woman at the well.
The Samaritan (half Jew/Gentile) woman said, "Our fathers worship this moutain (Mount Gerizin was the moutain on which Moses had commanded an altar to be built Deut. 27:4-6. The Samaritans had built a temple on Mount Gerizin 400 B.C. which the Jews destroyed... Both actions of course, increased hostility between the Jews and the Samaritans.)
The day is coming when God no longer dwells in the Temple in Jerusalem or on Mount Gerizin... but He will dwell in the hearts of His people as His Temple. Our bodies are the temple of God.
In Luke 24 Jesus instituted the Bread and the Wine where he met with His apostles in a home. Why? In this home Jesus gave thanks! and break it, and said, "Take, eat: this is my body (the Bread), which broken for you! this do in REMEMBERANCE! of me.
And the same manner also he took the cup (of wine) when he had supped, saying, "This is the NEW Testament in my blood: this do ye, as Often as ye drink it, in Rememberance of me."
~~~ We read the apostles and believers in the New Testament KEEP this tradition through down the ages (I Cor.11:18-26) where the disciples met in the homes of the believers to commemorate Christ's Eucharists/Thanksgiving=Bread and Wine and to have fellowship with one another with hymns, sharing their testimonies, speaking the words of God, praising God the Father, and the Son for all the benefits they have done for them.
This is how the believers of Jesus worship God in the Spirit and in Truth and that's through participating in Christ's Eucharists/Thanksgivings=Bread and Wine with one another believers in Christ.
Christ's Eucharists purpose is to commemorate in remembering the Ultimate sacrificed Jesus did for humanity on Calvary's Cross and the Resurrection bodies which He'll grant to everyone who believes in Him as their Lord God and Savior.
This is why the friends and workers today keep this Tradition of Christ's Eucharists in the homes of the believers as He commanded until He comes again.
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Post by nathanb on Sept 27, 2007 21:07:31 GMT -5
I know some people, including a few relatives, who have left our fellowship because of this issue of the “Way”. Some say we are too hung up on our form of worship. That “The Way”, being identified by a homeless ministry, ministers going out by pairs, and meetings in the home, is often the focal point. I have to honestly say, to some degree, they have a point. When I listen to testimonies in fellowship meetings, often people refer to the Way. By the content of their testimonies, often I understand they are referring to our fellowship, not Jesus-The-Way. It seems to me we can miss the whole point if we rely on the form and not Jesus, the Way, the Truth, and the Life. I believe our form of worship, and our fellowship, follows the simple, lowly way that Jesus intended. But, I would never say it is exclusively right. It is right for me, but I want to concentrate on the teachings of Christ and obtain the spirit he had to others and to our Father. I know we often use the terms, "The Truth" or "The Way" as shortcut terms for a fellowship without a name. I would like to be careful in how I use these terms and refer to the form as, "our fellowship" and use the "The Truth" and "The Way" for Jesus. John the apostle refer the fellowship as the Way and the Truth in his epistles to the disciples..
II John 1:-4 The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and NOT I only, but also all they that have known the truth; for the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever.
Grace be with you, mercy and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord=Yahweh Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.
I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth! as we have received a commandment from the Father.
~~~ My question is was it WRONG for John the apostle to use the term the truth of fellowship in His day as the truth?
Sometimes I believe people are too picky! with termimonlogies.
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Post by janicemallett on Sept 28, 2007 2:36:41 GMT -5
I am asking myself the same question. As I mentioned on 'standing true'. There is a danger that our faith could be in our system, our way of fellowship and our culture. I have been constantly meditating on a hymn not in our book, "In Christ alone." Our elders wife was shattered when she saw a poster at her work that was so 'right' according to our doctrine. I felt moved to say to her, "We can't glory in our meeting in the home...this is now common in a lot of churches. We can't glory in our workers going 2x2, others do that and take a vow of poverty. We can't glory in the way we dress, others are even more modest and 'different' in their attire. All these are scriptural and good but they alone do not secure us a place in eternity. We can glory in Christ alone. The rest is support and fellowship but our personal relationship with Christ is paramount." Thanks for the thoughts on here. Perhaps we should drop the Capitals from the way and truth.
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Post by mzbetts1 on Sept 28, 2007 20:58:19 GMT -5
We meet in homes and the ministry is without homes and go two and two. Doing it this way doesn't save us, but we are doing it because we are saved. It is the way Jesus taught His disciples and He is the same yesterday, today and forever, the way, the truth and the life, John 14:6. According to the Scripture, to do it another way, we would be wrong.
This is a technicality but I began long ago writing the words truth and way without beginning them with capitals, keeping them from being proper names. Also, I see it referred to as 2 x 2 all the time but really Jesus sent the disciples two and two. I don't write 2 x 2 because it is used derogitively by those who do not appreciate the ministry. I don't even acknowledge us as being 2 x2's. Just another technicality, not anything to pursue here.
But my reason is that many years ago two of our brothers were having gospel mtgs. and they were well attended. The people in the community began to call us Webbites for Willie Webb who preached in our area. One of the brothers was trying to get the point across that we are not denominationally named, as David N has pointed out, and after speaking about it, he asked if anyone in the congregation was a Webbite. LOL - Some of our older friends identified themselves as such. You may be sure the poor brother worker was surprised and very disappointed.
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Post by nathanb on Sept 28, 2007 21:57:52 GMT -5
1) We meet in homes and the ministry is without homes and go two and two. Doing it this way doesn't save us, but we are doing it because we are saved. It is the way Jesus taught His disciples and He is the same yesterday, today and forever, the way, the truth and the life, John 14:6. According to the Scripture, to do it another way, we would be wrong. ~~~ AMEN! sister. The Catholic church in Rome deviated from the teachings of Jesus in the 3rd century and see what kind of a MESS they have created.
Jesus is God's Truth and Way... His Itinerant ministry, and the Eucharists/Bread and Wine are be held in the homes of the believers are MANDATORY! to be kept in every generation until He comes again.2) This is a technicality but I began long ago writing the words truth and way without beginning them with capitals, keeping them from being proper names. Also, I see it referred to as 2 x 2 all the time but really Jesus sent the disciples two and two. I don't write 2 x 2 because it is used derogitively by those who do not appreciate the ministry. I don't even acknowledge us as being 2 x2's. Just another technicality, not anything to pursue here. ~~~ The followers of Jesus were called Christians in the first century. They did not take an Universal church name to identify themselves... many names were given to the True Church (Itinerant apostles and disciples of Christ) through down the ages but they themselves have NEVER taken any kind of name. 3) But my reason is that many years ago two of our brothers were having gospel mtgs. and they were well attended. The people in the community began to call us Webbites for Willie Webb who preached in our area. One of the brothers was trying to get the point across that we are not denominationally named, as David N has pointed out, and after speaking about it, he asked if anyone in the congregation was a Webbite. LOL - Some of our older friends identified themselves as such. You may be sure the poor brother worker was surprised and very disappointed. ~~~ I read in the Pilgrim Church history book... The disciples of the Vaudois apostles (A.D. 70-1800) were called by Hericans, Paulicans and other names because their enemies did NOT know what to call them! so they attached the prominent preachers among them... such as Hericans, Paulicans, Petroburians....
The last 100 yrs in our fellowship we have known the non-2x2s people have called the friends as Webbites, Cooneynites, Irvinites, etc.. because we do NOT have an "Official" name for our fellowship either. Things have NOT changed.
It is amazing how the Vaudois apostolic preachers and their followers have many similiar traditions, teachings, belief when many of the early workers NEVER heard of met these Christians. That's a miracle I say.
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Post by Alan C on Sept 29, 2007 5:15:10 GMT -5
Good question brother. For me it is that Jesus is truth and Jesus be in you, then truth be in you, then you live truth and be in truth. When all who have the Spirit of The Christ within they become truth, in The truth of Jesus Christ together. Hence The Truth.
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Post by west australian on Oct 1, 2007 4:51:22 GMT -5
Bill Macourt always preaches, This is THE TRUTH, THE Way....bollocks
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Post by nathanb on Oct 1, 2007 9:06:11 GMT -5
Bill Macourt always preaches, This is THE TRUTH, THE Way....bollocks Why do you think what he said is bollocks? You don't believe the 2x2 fellowship is the Truth and the Way of Jesus Christ?
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