Judged by how we finish, NOT how we start.

[nathanb]

Notes: In the Day of Judgement We are Judged by HOW we FINISH, not by How we Start.

Let us run with Endurance the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the JOY that was set before Him Endured the cross, despising the shame, and is sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. (Hebrews 12:1,2)

In 1992 the Summer Olympic Games were held in Barcelona, Spain. One of the runners in the 400-meter race was an English athelete named Derek Redmond. He had trained for years to compete in the Olympics. But while sprinting in the qualifying heat, he suddendly pulled a hamstring and crumpled to the track in pain.

Determined to go on, Derek struggled to his feet. He was hobbling toward the FINISH line when his father scaled the retaining wall and jumped onto the tr4ack. Before anyone could stop him, Jim Redmond reached his son. The young runner leaned on his father's shoulder as he staggered to the complete the race.

The entire crowd stood and cheered the two men on. When they crossed the FINISH Line, it was as if the runner, his father, and the spectators had done it together.

~~~ The writer of Hebrews and Jesus encourages us in (Matthew 24: 13) to run the race of faith and presevere to the end, following the example of those who had gone before us. It takes all of our spiritual stamina to complete it, but we don't run the course ALONE. Christ Himself, the Holy Spirit, our Heavenly Father and our fellow-Christians help us toward the finish line.

~~~ In the Day of judgement We are judged and rewarded at the end of our spiritual race by HOW we FINISH, not by How we START.

[fire]

We are Judged by HOW we FINISH, not by How we Start

I thought God judged us righteous through the blood of Christ and not by what we do or how we finish. We can never merit a favorable judgement on our own behalf, instead we must rely completely on the finish work on the cross and the blood of Christ.

Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace.

Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

The price has been paid. God looks down upon us and see not our own righteousness (filthy rags), but the righteousness of Christ and judge us acceptable in his sight because if it.

[nathanb]

Nathan

We are Judged by HOW we FINISH, not by How we Start

1) Fire wrote:

I thought God judged us righteous through the blood of Christ and not by what we do or how we finish. We can never merit a favorable judgement on our own behalf, instead we must rely completely on the finish work on the cross and the blood of Christ.

~~~ Nathan: Yes, you're correct that the redemption price for humanity was paid in full on Calvary's cross through Jesus' death. He paid it by dying a horrible, cruel death so we might NOT taste eternal death from God forever ourselves. Now, Jesus has given the gift of Salvation to anyone who believes in him as the Lord God and Savior.

Our own righteousness, good works don't make us acceptable before God at all.[/color]

2) Fire wrote:

Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace.

Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

The price has been paid. God looks down upon us and see not our own righteousness (filthy rags), but the righteousness of Christ and judge us acceptable in his sight because if it.

~~~~ Nathan: Fire, I believe we are beliving the same thing you might have missed what I was trying to say... I don't believe in once SAVED always saved doctrine.

A believer in Christ must repent daily from his/hers sins and trust in the cleansing blood of Christ unto the end of life. To the Christians John wrote in (I John 1:6-10) If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in darkness, we LIE, and do NOT live by the truth. But if we walk in the Light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the BLOOD of Jesus Christ His Son, cleanseth us from ALL sins

If we say that we have NOT sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

~~~ Fire, we agree what you wrote.... I hope you know what I am saying on my thread. Finishing is more important than starting in this spiritual race from earth to heaven. Many disciples of Jesus started with Him but some of them did not continue with him to the end.

John 6:52-68 .... Many therefore of his disciples, when they heard when Jesus told them, Verily, Verily, I say unto you, Except ye EAT the flesh of the Son of man, and DRINK my blood, ye have NO LIFE in you.... From that time MANY of his disciples WENT back, and WALKED no more with him.

~~~ The disciples who left Jesus misunderstood what He said and meant about eating his flesh and drinking his blood... they thought Jesus meant eating his flesh and drinking his blood literally... That was NOT what Jesus talking about.... he was talking about partaken the bread (represent his body) and the Wine (reprent his blood)= Eucharists of the New Testament covenant.

Thanks, for what you share, fire. [/color]

[Joe]

Revelations 2:5… Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent

These words are in red because they were spoken by Jesus himself. These people had already repented once.... they were in fellowship with him, and now he is saying they need to repent again or else he would take them out of the place they had.

When I read the rest of this chapter in context with the first and third, it really seem to me that Jesus is saying that it is all about how we live... not how we start as Nathan said, but how we live. Who are you living for today?

[nathanb]

joe said:

Revelations 2:5… Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent

These words are in red because they were spoken by Jesus himself. These people had already repented once.... they were in fellowship with him, and now he is saying they need to repent again or else he would take them out of the place they had.

When I read the rest of this chapter in context with the first and third, it really seem to me that Jesus is saying that it is all about how we live... not how we start as Nathan said, and maybe not even how we end, but how we live. Who are you living for today?

Thanks, Joe.... you're good. I had those verses in mind also about the seven churches in the book of Revelation. All of these believers had a START.... but some LEFT their first love! some believers believed in the doctrine of Balaam that eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication, some committed adultery...

Jesus told these believers who had sinned to REPENT or He'd remove their names from the book of life, their crowns, or removing their candlesticks...

1) Starting is good...
2) Continuing is better....
3) But Finishing is the BEST or the ONLY way to go.

I love what John the apostle wrote in I John 1:9 If we confess our sin, He is faithful and just to forgive our sins, and to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness... I John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin NOT, and if any man sin, we have an ADVOCATE with the Father, Jesus Christ! the righteous ONE. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins: and NOT for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.[/color]

[fire]

nathanb said:

I don't believe in once SAVED always saved doctrine.

That term has a huge stigma attached to it. Some believe it means you can do whatever you want and still be saved.

So if you're trying to say a believer will be saved even if they live in sin and never attempt to turn away from sin, then I would agree that I do not believe in it as well.

However, I believe God preserves his children until the end.

A believer in Christ must repent daily from his/hers sins and trust in the cleansing blood of Christ unto the end of life.

Not only must, I believe a true believer will do these things.

To the Christians John wrote in (I John 1:6-10) If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in darkness, we LIE, and do NOT live by the truth. But if we walk in the Light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the BLOOD of Jesus Christ His Son, cleanseth us from ALL sins

Those who walked in darkness professed with their lips only and were never true believers from the start. Read 1 John 2:19

The bible tells us we must persevere until the end. This is God's requirement of his people. Passages like 1 John 1:5-10 make this very clear. But what is also clear is that true believers will persevere until the end. God will keep his people from falling and not one belonging to Jesus will be lost. This is made clear in passages such as John 10:28-29, Romans 8:28-39, and Philippians 1:4-6.

We can profess Christ in our life and fall away, but those who are of God (true belivers) will persevere until the end. If in fact saving faith is God's gift, then it cannot be lost and true believers cannot reverse the work of God in our lives. We Must persevere and we Will persevere. It is the will of God.

[ram]

At the end of the day our vision must be on completing the course. Paul encourages us to run the race in such a way as to win it. This does not mean we have to be going flat out, but to do the best we can and to keep on, keeping on to the finishing line.

The old yarn about the hare and the tortoise is a good one to consider. After the starting pistol had been fired they both set of over the course, putting their best into it, aiming to win it. Abilities saw the hare zoom way ahead of the ol' tortoise and before long the finishing line loomed, which the hare could easily have reached.

However, Mr Hare looked back (not a good thing to do if your ploughing) and realised he was miles in front of the tortoise and thought to himself, "I've put a lot into this race so far, I think I've got time for a kip and still win the race with ease ?" Torty's not going to complete this race, never mind win it, the rate he's going. He's goin' to drop off !

Well you know what, Mr Hare fell into slumberland, whilst ol' torty just kept crawlin' on as best as he could. The hours past by until torty eventually crawled past Mr Hare who couldn't hear torty's feet scratchin' on the road because he was snorin'. That's a fact !

Anyway torty crawled on while Mr Hare enjoyed his long break from the race and guess what ? Torty crawled by over that finishing line to rapturous reptilian cheers, whilst all the rodents went home sad, having lost all their bets on the race. The race was finshed. It was over.

When Mr. Hare woke up he couldn't see anybody, no finishing tape, no nuthin'. Just coldness and barrenness. He shook himself down and took off in the direction of the finishing line, but there was no longer a race to run and nobody to cheer him finishing.

Just goes to show, do the little you can do, keep on, keeping on crawlin', if that's what it takes. Don't take your eye of the finishing line or think you've made a bit of progress and can take some time out. The race is not for the swift. We must run the race with patience.

Next time you look at the tortoises in God's way, you make sure you realise they've got guts. Don't get taken up with the hares. Folks with lots of resources and ability get our respect. That's our human nature. However, all too often their furrows ain't straight, or they only get half way across the field. Don't take my word for it. Go back to the beginning of this post and read it again to see if it's true !

[Joe]

Fire,

I do believe what you are saying is true. If one loves God and his children as he should, has the Spirit within, there will be nothing of this earth or the powers in it that can take us away from him.

I do understand however that it is easy for this old human nature to rise up and fill our lives with things that are distractions and before we know it our love has grown cold. I have been there, but like you say, because of his love for us and his Spirit dealing with us, and our faith in the right thing, He was able to bring me back. It was as Nathan posted, really because of the love we have for one another and for Christ and God and his Holy Spirit, we are not in this "race" alone, but together with lots of help.

We will not be judged by the struggles along the way, but for the love and faith at the end. We will not be judged by the failures along the way, but because we turned again to him. He will judge that love and faith because of the righteousness imputed unto us through the Spirit dwelling in us.

[nathanb]

~~~ Nathan wrote: I don't believe in once SAVED always saved doctrine.

1) Fire:
That term has a huge stigma attached to it. Some believe it means you can do whatever you want and still be saved.

So if you're trying to say a believer will be saved even if they live in sin and never attempt to turn away from sin, then I would agree that I do not believe in it as well.

However, I believe God preserves his children until the end.
Not only must, I believe a true believer will do these things.

To the Christians John wrote in (I John 1:6-10) If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in darkness, we LIE, and do NOT live by the truth. But if we walk in the Light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the BLOOD of Jesus Christ His Son, cleanseth us from ALL sins

2) Fire:
Those who walked in darkness professed with their lips only and were never true believers from the start. Read 1 John 2:19

The bible tells us we must persevere until the end. This is God's requirement of his people. Passages like 1 John 1:5-10 make this very clear. But what is also clear is that true believers will persevere until the end. God will keep his people from falling and not one belonging to Jesus will be lost. This is made clear in passages such as John 10:28-29, Romans 8:28-39, and Philippians 1:4-6.

~~~ Nathan: Ram! awesome about the hare and tortoise analogy. Amen, to your post, Joe.

Fire, we all agree that God has the power to preserve the true believers unto the end but some will give up in the middle of the race, or during the heat of the day, such as discouragement, unforgiveness toward others, having a great love for the things of the world, sins of the flesh, and we can go on and on...

Here are some examples in the Gospels, and the New Testament epistles...

1) John 6:52-71 Many of Jesus WENT BACK! and walked no more with him because they misunderstood his teaching about eating his flesh and drinking his blood. They went back by their own choice and choosing. Nobody forced them to go back.

2) Judas Iscariot, one of his 12 apostles betrayed Jesus... He knew someone was going to betrayed him. God and Jesus wanted to preserve Judas unto the end too but he sealed his fate by his own human greed for 30 pieces of silver.

3) The parable of the sowers and 4 types soils in (Matthew 13:18-23).

a) The Wayside soil (heart) heard and RECEIVED the seed which sown in his heart but did not understand then Satan comes along and took away what sown in his heart.

b) Stony soil (heart) hear the word and received it with JOY yet had he No ROOT in himself.... Endure for awhile but when tribulation! or persecution arise because of the word, by and by he is offended.

c) Thorny soil (heart) heard the word and RECEIVED it but the cares of this world and the deceifulness of riches, choke the word, and become Unfruitful.

d) Good ground soil (heart) Hear the word, understand it, bear fruit some 100 folds, some 60 folds, and some 30 folds...

~~~ Four types of hearts! All heard the word of God, RECEIVED it Joy but only the good ground soil (heart) which show forth good fruit.

Jesus said in Matthew 24:19-13 that many of his disciples shall be afflicted, killed, and shall be hated of ALL nations for his name sake. And then many of them shall be offended and shall BETRAY one another, and shall hate one another.

And many false prophets shall arise and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, and the LOVE of many shall wax cold.... BUT he that endures unto the END shall be SAVED.

~~~ God is able to perserve His elect unto the end but the CHOICE is still up to them to CONTINUE and ENDURE unto the end. They are NOT to Give up! if they were then there is NOT much he can do for them unless they REPENT and serving Him once again.

~~~ Fire.... the verses which you quoted John 10:29,29; Romans 8:28,29; Philippian 1:4-6 are TRUE and Good...

God will ALWAYS! keep his promises! He loves and preserves his own children but when they choose! to go back! discontinue! betray Him then He will grant their wishes... He will wait for them to REPENT or want to come back to Him by their own choice. God will NOT force anyone to LOVE Him.

~~~ Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who "were once enlightened" and have TASTED of the heavenly gift and were made "Partakers" of the Holy Ghost.... if they shall FALL AWAY! to Renew them again unto Repentance! seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him (Jesus) to an open shame.

~~ Hebrews 10:26,35 For if we (Christians) sin willfully AFTER that we have "Received" the knowledge of the truth, there remain no more sacrifice for sins. But a certain fearfull looking for of judgement and firery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.... God shall Judge His people...

Cast NOT away! therefore your confidence, which has GREAT recompense of reward. Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man "DRAW BACK" my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are NOT of them who draw back unto perdition....

~~~ You see some of these "SAVED" Hebrews Christians had or thinking of leaving Christ and go back! believing in the the Old Testament animals sacrifice and ritual covenant so the author of the book of Hebrews told them in (Hebrews 10:4) For it is NOT possible that the blood of bulls, and of goats CAN NOT take away your sins.... so you will DIE in your sin! Only the blood of Jesus can take away your sin!

This is only one of problems that the apostle had to deal with the Christians who have decided or thinking of going BACK! to their OLD way of worship because they had too much persecution from their non-believing Hebrews.


3) Fire wrote:
We can profess Christ in our life and fall away, but those who are of God (true belivers) will persevere until the end. If in fact saving faith is God's gift, then it cannot be lost and true believers cannot reverse the work of God in our lives. We Must persevere and we Will persevere. It is the will of God.

~~~ Nathan: Fire, you believe those who are TRUE BELIEVERS can not reverse the Work of God...

If believers can NOT reverse God's gift.... Then how do you and I know WHEN a person is SAVED...

1) It is when he/she confesses in his/her own heart Jesus is Lord God and Savior

2) or he/she HAS to wait unto the END to find out he/she has been preserved? It is choice #1 or #2 according to your understanding.

~~~~ Fire.... we agree with many of the things which you write and believe so that is good.

[ozelaine]

Nathan, God's provision for His people in eternity is not based on what they accomplish or do in this life but on what Christ has done and accomplished for them.

If we are to be judged on how we finish, none would qualify for salvation for we are sinful. God makes it very clear that our salvation is a gift, which is eternal life.

How much sin do you think God will ignore when we are finishing our lives? If we have any sin, even a milimeter, God cannot accept us. What then makes us acceptable to God except Christ's perfect righteousness? Christ is the only remedy for our sin. His sacrifice paid the price for our sin and took the effect of it away. His righteousness is credited to our account when we believe the Gospel and are born again. What more could we add to that perfect righteousness that would help to qualify us for eternal life?

Repentance is a very real part of our lives but it cannot accomplish anything unless backed by the sacrifice and righteousness of Christ. Once we are saved/born again sin does not keep us separated from God ever again. We fail, we fall, we sin but that sin cannot be charged to our account anymore because the wrath of God has been transfered to Jesus. Christ’s death for the sins of His people does not mean that they will never again commit those sins, but that He has paid the penalty in full which those sins incur.

How we finish is guaranteed by us being God's children and those whom He has given to Jesus to die for. God has predestinated those whom He fore-loved to salvation. God has entrusted a people, whom He chose before the foundation of the world, to His Son. He has done this that His Son should die for them and establish a perfect Righteousness for them. In John 17:3 Jesus adds, "And this is life eternal, that THEY (whom the Father has given Him) might know Thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, Whom Thou hast sent." This is a specific prayer for a specific people. All those whom the Father has given to His Son are the ones Jesus prays for and gives eternal life to.

Our eternal destiny is not about us at all it's only ever about Jesus Christ and what he has done for His people, those whom God has chosen to save.

ALL the glory belongs to God!

Blessings, Elaine.

[geoff]

Its my opinion that this thread suffers from mixing the concepts of salvation and reward.

Salvation:
Can't earn it, not dependent on our efforts, given freely, unaffected by the actions of others.... Determines eternal location. A matter of faith not works.


Reward:
Dependent on our actions, independent of the actions of others, not a gift, must be earned, not a matter of faith but of works.
Has no impact on eternal location, but on eternal priviledges, status, responsibilties.

my tuppence worth...

[ozelaine]

A very worthwhile mention Geoff and I agree with what you wrote.

1 Corinthians 3:15
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

[nancy]

Following along with this thread, the thought that comes to me is that I'm glad for the fact
that we can finish just in the same way that we began. Each of us is on equal ground when
we begin, and we can finish on equal ground because the terms remain the same.

We must become and remain 'as a little child'. We can grow and become
strong in the Spirit, yet how that is accomplished is to continue with a
child-like spirit.
Matt 18:3 ..."Except ye be converted and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."
:4 "Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child (that he had set in the midst of them) the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven." .......so we see that humility of spirit is important.......

And we know that Jesus thanked the Father -Matt 11:25- "I thank thee
O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things
from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes."

And I've been thinking lately about what is written in James 4.
:13 " Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you?
let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of
wisdom."....... :6...."for God resisteth the proud and giveth grace
to the humble." :7 "Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the
devil, and he will flee from you." (To me that in itself is an amazing truth!)
:8 "Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you".......

So the point is that we just plain Need God....... Always....from beginning
to finish.... And if every day we present our lives to Him we'll end up where we long to be and where He wishes for us to be as well.

I love the thought of hymn 286:

"Dear Lord, and off'ring I would bring
To Thee, my Prophet, Priest and King;
Though small and mean the gift may be ,
'Tis all I have to give to Thee."
"Accept I pray,
The life I give to Thee today;
'Tis Thine, 'Tis Thine:
Forever I my clan resign."

Even in the parable of the talents: (Matt 25:14) we understand we all stand
on even ground and that our reward will just and right accordingly.

Good night all.
Love,
In Christ,
Nancy (e)

[nathanb]

nancye said:

Feel free to remove my "double" post, Richard. Sorry!
n.

Nancye... you can delete any of your post whenever you like very easy... just click the post which you don't like and go to the word "Delete" on the upper right hand corner.

Or if you want to delete or add anything to your post just click on the word "Modify" very easy...

Try to remove your post #14... by use the "Delete" button on the upper right. Go go your post #14 and click on the word "Delete" and see what happens.

[nancye]

joe said:

Fire,

I do believe what you are saying is true. If one loves God and his children as he should, has the Spirit within, there will be nothing of this earth or the powers in it that can take us away from him.

I do understand however that it is easy for this old human nature to rise up and fill our lives with things that are distractions and before we know it our love has grown cold. I have been there, but like you say, because of his love for us and his Spirit dealing with us, and our faith in the right thing, He was able to bring me back. It was as Nathan posted, really because of the love we have for one another and for Christ and God and his Holy Spirit, we are not in this "race" alone, but together with lots of help.

We will not be judged by the struggles along the way, but for the love and faith at the end. We will not be judges by the failures along the way, but because we turned again to him. He will judge that love and faith because of the righteousness imputed unto us through the Spirit dwelling in us.

Joe,

I agree with your conclusion, and say amen.
Is encouraging!
n.