Knowledge over Revelation

[pianoman]

I find some that have all of the history and knowledge on here, but seem to be lacking in real fruits of the spirit.

I am not being judgmental, but I feel that the history is really unimportant, when it comes to salvation.

We do have the bible to read, and the spirit to lead. Is that not enough.

Why do people want to prove of disprove the way things started, and what importance is placed on the spiritual leading in these things.

To me, if your faith is strong enough, you will not need to have proof of whom started what, and how things began. It is enough that we have turned to the Lord for guidance.

May we seek spiritual edification, and leave knowledge of history to the Scholars. I think it a waste of time, when I can feed on God's word.

History is always slanted by the writer, so nothing is truly what it seems. The bible is truth in and of itself.

My notes from a convention many years ago:

"Bad men could not have written the bible because it condemns them.

Good men and angels couldn't have written it, and said it comes from God, they would be lying and not be good.

It had to come from God"

Good enough for me. As for the fellowship, I believe it is an honest effort to follow the teachings of Jesus, and Paul's correction.

To para-phrase a quote from a friend, 'If there is a God, and he created the entire universe, what does He think of the petty things that a few friends and workers, that are off base, matter?

I hope this would spark a new flame in our hearts to edify one another and not teach or seek knowledge in history.

Let us strive for the treasures of the kingdom.... Dale

[quest]

Exactly . Dale
Thanks for sharing this testimony.

I believe we are accoutable for how we live before God,

and part of our living, is how we understand our relationship to him, and his plan.

The part where I miss out , if I miss out on fellowship while still on earth, and to realize that my knowledge, might make me 'judgemental' of others, if we do not share the same knowledge, yet we can share the same 'spirit' and enjoy our fellowship in the spirit of seeking God / truth.

[pianoman]

Thanks for the reply, QuestGuest.

I know we are accountable to God in how we live before him, and that should not interfere with fellowship while here on earth, but should enhance it.

I know that many that leave the fellowship like to condemn it's teachings, and practices. Those inside the fellowship are of many different facets.

Some are following rules, and have never had a true revelation. Some are there to justify themselves, and there are those that are there to truly fellowship with others in Christ. I have found that those that are there honestly to fellowship with others in Christ, are true believers, and just want true fellowship, not discussions about doctrine.

Doctrine is what most churches are founded on. The fellowship had many good aspects, but as in the new testament, it has earthly flaws.

Should we exclude fellowship with true believers because a certain system has flaws? I don't think so.

Should we be angered and bitter if we have a bad experience with a group? I don't think so.

Salvation is a personal matter, and we need to seek like minded individuals to fellowship with.

Personally, I have great fellowship with many in and out of the fellowship. It is when one goes off on a tangent about doctrine, I try to shift the focus back to Jesus.

We can not teach others, but we can reach others with our walk, not our talk.

That is one reason for this post to see if others can come in here and talk about their experience in their revelation, and leave the history and learning tools alone.

I found God in meetings and with friends in the fellowship. I miss many things and like fellowship with those I find that are true in their hearts. I may return and hope to shrug off anything that I find unpleasant, or unrealistic.

In short, fellowship is sharing Christ with others and sharing things from a revelation.

May we all seek to share our feelings and not our knowledge...................Dale

[quest]

Thanks again for the informative reply.

Part of my understanding, probably has come about by struggling with unbelief.

As you might also share in some of those struggles.

Perhaps at times , I wonder how or when God speaks to us??

Does God prefere the English language ? hmmmm, so then, I have even attempted to study the origin of the English language
from a secular point of view, and I cannot find the answer that I am looking for!

That tells me that I am already biased before I begin my query!

It is almost impossible to avoid bias on a subject as vital as our core belief(s).

To continue , we can consider the vanity of knowledge, or the vanity of not pursuing knowledge, (for vanity)....

yet, in order to understand the 'will of God', do not we need to accept that somethings we will never fully understand, yet we often pray fore God to reveal things to us??

It is like a paradox, and we are vexed to pray more and more until God sees fit to reveal things to us? right?

But then praying is the tool that helps us 'dig' into that 'treasure that is hid in the field' and when we find the treasure we rejoice, why, because we see and understand the value of it , cause we made an effort to find it.....

At this point, we become aware that not everyone has the same 'treasures'. and that leads to another paradox, can we find a universal treasure that everyone enjoys?

Or what is the answer, if we find the same treasure and we both can have fellowship in that this treasure is what eternity values are, then , the paradox, the treasure we find is in the spirit, and not an earthen vanity or even knowledge of it, yet knowledge is one of the cornerstones of understanding, and eventually having eternal hope..... huh?

sorry for all this rambling and not getting anywhere

[pianoman]

I think I can see what you are saying.

Perhaps I can simplify my thoughts on what you are asking.

I don't think God has a preferable language, but speaks the language of our hearts.

Hearing God's voice. The key to hearing God's voice, is listening for it. Is it audible? Not out loud, but I have heard it in my head.

Imagine the little devil on one shoulder and the little angel on the other. When we are in a situation for a decision, do we not have this kind of experience? Which voice do we listen to? That feeling we get when we know we are doing wrong is from God.

When and where does God speak to us? I say anytime, anywhere that we are, IF we are listening for his voice and guidance.

The treasure is only one treasure. Sometimes it has some garbage around it, like gold. Gold is not recognizable to the untrained eye. Gold miners can clearly see a vein of gold, but it is hidden in a rock. The rock has no value, but hides the gold from untrained eyes.
Using that analogy, think of us as prospectors. We seek treasure of the kingdom. If we learn to recognize the treasure, and can leave the rock behind, have we not gotten to the heart of the treasure.
Heaven would not be heaven if we were to drag our earthly baggage there, so the things of the kingdom, or the things of Christ, like his walk and talk, are the things we need to learn and mold our lives after.
Think of it this way. If you were not a Christian, and you went to heaven, would you enjoy it?
If you were raised in an English speaking land, and cast into a foreign land where the language was different, the food, and accommodations were all foreign, would you feel at home? NO, and even if you were to adapt to that land, you would always miss your home.

We need to make the kingdom, or things of Christ (Gold) our home, here on earth, and leave the things of the world (Rock) alone.

Things of the world= knowledge, vanity, trends, pleasures and a million other things that are appealing on an individual level.

"Seek ye the kingdom, first" The rest will fall in line. God will reveal more to you if you let him control your life. As long as you have left yourself in control, even 1%, he can not control you.

I hope this is uplifting, and maybe addresses your above statements............Dale

[pianoman]

P.S. addressing unbelief. We all have some degree of "faith lapses", but can we truly say we have unbelief? Unbelief, to me, means that we don't believe. I have been through that "valley of the shadow of death" too many times and survived to have unbelief.

I pray that others don't have the experiences to make their belief so strong, but hope that they can see that God is in Heaven, and the rest, all is right with the world. Our world, when God is in His Place.

Thanks again for the opportunity to post my views...............................Dale

[quest]

Good reply, thanks.

But can we analyze the differences between revelations, and knowledge?

When something is revealed to us, does this become our Godly knowledge.

II Peter 1:5
Add to your faith, virtue,
and to your virtue, 'knowledge'
and to knowledge , temperance
and to temperance, patience
and to patience , godliness
and to godliness , brotherly kindness..

and to brotherly kindness, charity


and if these things be in you and ABOUND, they make it ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

That is quite a good description of how we become fruitful, and as we overflow with this fruitfulness, others too can be inspired.

Thanks, Dale, for giving hope to the hopeless! Yet there is some knowledge that is virtuous to obtain, but the carnal knowledge
that ends in the grave, while it can be useful in this life, has a paradox, of being both vain and still necessary, sort of a necessary vanity, huh?

[pianoman]

Yes, we do need knowledge, but we don't need to fill our heads with a bunch of history of where our faith started.

I am talking about our faith in God. That is something that we had started in our heart, and the things you mention from II Peter, are fruits of the spirit, as stated later in the verse.

I am no wise man, I just try to attend to the things that are necessary for life here on earth, and prepare for the things ahead, in eternity.

If we have the proper love for God, he will give us the knowledge we need for eternity.

Please do not write yourself off as hopeless. Where there is life there is hope. Turn the focus off of what you can't do for yourself, and put it on what God can do for you. When we are feeling hopeless, we also feel helpless. That is a good condition to approach God with as there are enough "experts" that have the answers. Only God will fill a needy desperate heart.

Been there, done that. Until I yielded to God, I was hopeless and helpless.

I wish you the best in all things and may the spirit move you to right things............Dale

[perhaps]

Feb 12, 2009 15:30:39 GMT -5 pianoman said:

Yes, we do need knowledge, but we don't need to fill our heads with a bunch of history of where our faith started.

I am talking about our faith in God. That is something that we had started in our heart, and the things you mention from II Peter, are fruits of the spirit, as stated later in the verse.

I am no wise man, I just try to attend to the things that are necessary for life here on earth, and prepare for the things ahead, in eternity.

If we have the proper love for God, he will give us the knowledge we need for eternity.

Please do not write yourself off as hopeless. Where there is life there is hope. Turn the focus off of what you can't do for yourself, and put it on what God can do for you. When we are feeling hopeless, we also feel helpless. That is a good condition to approach God with as there are enough "experts" that have the answers. Only God will fill a needy desperate heart.

Been there, done that. Until I yielded to God, I was hopeless and helpless.

I wish you the best in all things and may the spirit move you to right things............Dale

I meant it as a compliment .
Yes, don't we all get discouraged at times, and feel helpless, yet we do not really give up 'hope' , BUT then I like what Isaiah records about the 'smoldering flaxstraw' ?
I have had the experience of burning 'flaxstraw' so I find this example very apropriate to my experiences. When then flaxstraw is about to look like it is helplessly hopeless done burning and only a faint whisper of smoke left in the ashes, and no visable trace of an ember , I took some fresh straw and laid it on that whispering smoke, and stoked it , and within a few seconds, a flame came forth, proving that God will not give up on us, just as that flaxstraw wasn't yet dead,even though I thought it looked dead to me. as he sees the potential of the smoldering flaxstraw, even if our lives at times lose some of the fire and begin to smolder down.

I hope that we all are willing to offer hope to the hopeless, as that is the lot most human beings will feel at times, that we see ourselves as hopeless , Yet we do have hope, and I also want to remind you of the same, even if you do not feel hopeless , today, perhaps , never, but , when things look hopeless, there still is hope as long as we are alive! right?

[pianoman]

Thanks so much for the great analogy. I really like the flaxstraw story. It is really indicative of what God can do. I am going to post another post, regarding the seperation from the world issue. I feel that the hopeless will only have hope, if they see it in others.

And Right you are.

Thanks again.......................................................Dale