musings about nothing

[quest]

I really want to discuss this subject, but alas, NO-one is anywhere in sight that has the slightest interest in what I am a-musing myself with......hmmmm, thoughts , and quest-ions, and ponderances about how "light' was created!

....of course we 'believers'' KNOW the right answer to this question? right??

IF , even , we think we know, or well, it just 'Happened', out of the darkness of the primevil atom (big bang??) ....

I love to muse whether or not it is (or could have been) logical that such an event occured, in such a way that is theorized by many evolutionist (anti-creationist) scientists in the world ....today.


My contention is somewhat based on my belief core,.....that is...

that it takes 'light' to create 'light'!!

IF nothing existed in the beginning, other than the primeval atom, and the lurking 'gravitational singularity' that was to spontaneously create the 'culture' for this infinite explosion that could be argued 'contents include the creation of "light' out of nothing.zilch/darkest of the dark/ and as heat was not a theoretical part of the singularity, the paradoxal ability for gravity to even exist in such a culture is beyond my wildest imagi-nations!

thus until further speculations deem my musings for naught.....I shall consider that if there was no-thing to create/ heat prior to singularity acting on the PA, then, at best, this occured in a cultural atmosphere that was hoovering in the range of absolute zero!! -----hmmmm, if we go beyond what science can consider 'logical' then perhaps, in such a culture the concept of absolute zero, would be ...relative, to the existance of a substance that considered 'absolute zero' as its lowest theoretical temperature, where in all matter is in a state of "motionless'' existance......

WOW, so it should be considered provable then, that

IT takes 'light' in order to create 'light'


Now, just in case you are wondering.....this isn't an exercise to disprove ALL aspects of an expanding uni-verse, but just that

we start with the 'right foundation' in considering whether or not

'light' was already existing before any primeval atom ever took the stage.


thanks for reading this.


oh, as an aside....isn't there a 'spiritual' lesson to be gleaned from this concept??? hmm,

I think SO.

[pianoman]

I am not a student of these things, but I think that the theory is that the fireball, called the sun, was responsible for the "light" in the case, if one were to believe the big bang theory.

Worse than that, how can one cell crawl out of muck and become an ant, and an elephant? If you can answer that, you have all the answers and I am just rambling.

I just can't even see how evolutionists can ponder such things, supposing that they have such high intellect.

Oh well, back to basics, and God. I would rather have that anyway,........................Dale

[quest]

Feb 7, 2009 17:08:35 GMT -5 pianoman said:

I am not a student of these things, but I think that the theory is that the fireball, called the sun, was responsible for the "light" in the case, if one were to believe the big bang theory.

Worse than that, how can one cell crawl out of muck and become an ant, and an elephant? If you can answer that, you have all the answers and I am just rambling.

I just can't even see how evolutionists can ponder such things, supposing that they have such high intellect.

Oh well, back to basics, and God. I would rather have that anyway,........................Dale

thanks for the reply, Dale.

I agree with thee, yet,,,,,suposedly, ''everything '' was begotten from the ''bigbang'',, right???

I know rational would have a clever reason to dispute my logic, the simple logic of an unassuming human being, thrust onto the earth with some purpose to fulfil, yet...being I am still being and NOT dead yet, my purpose mustn't yet be fully finished.....or some encore is yet to be had somewhere ;D

I like keeping things 'simple' in my world, and yet there are those that wish to complicate things...considerably! and I can only wonder how things...that seem so relatively simple can be made sooo complicated.

Ya, I do like Einsteins theory of relativity, and I have already pursued a drawnout discussion with rational about the bigbang theory and its ....'logical'-ness? well, IN my humble opinion, one has to believe in 'fairy tales' to believe the hypothetical correctness was even close to the actual correctness that had to have occured at such an event as the bigbang/singularity etc....

but to continue this discussion about what can ''nothing'' produce? My answer is: "nothing'' !

right?

and continuing on we 'logically' deduce that ::

2. logic is the only thing that can produce logic!

3. BUT THEN !! :: darkness cannot produce darkness! ( ohhh, of course...shalll we 'define darkness to be the absense of light', then, yes the bible is correct, it states that darkness cannnot prevail over light....this is a true statement in science as it is in understanding logos. (words/God/knowledge) of which tells us that like things produce like things of but not exactly but after the pattern of the begetter ....(ie: such as only wisdom can produce wisdom, only love produces love, only understanding produces understanding, cruelty produces cruelty, trust promotes trust, compassion begets compassion, forgiveness knows forgiveness, knowledge begets knowledge, ignorance produces more ignorance.....

but yet, 'darkness' cannot produce darkness, yet it is itself, darkness.


In light of this, truth being needed to produce truth....it is not a difficult thing to understand that this is and has been the way God ordered things from the beginning of time.


Oh, I was 'thinking' what was the first recorded knowledge that Adam gleaned, after being created?

wasn't it when he discovered he was naked? who told him ?

perhaps God was wondering if Adam was listening to him ...., yet?? hmmmm can it be are ears are damed up, so we do not hear God's voice clearly enough to recognize that it is God's voice???

The name Adam , is constructed in ''English'' as: A-dam , which is a picture of the human condition, I read a Jewish book that explained how Adam is the personification of every human being and how we are created to seek after God, but soo many dam up their lives in their own little world and resist being corrected after we mess up our lives through disobeying and ignoring/questioning Gods voice. hmmmm


just some more musings about nothing!

[order vs chaos]

5. order produces order.

6. chaos produces chaos!

the theoretical chaos of the big bang is irrationally predicted to evolve into the intelligence designed and ordered throughout the whole universe..... massive chaos does not produce presision orderly culture, it is not in the nature of chaos to understand orderly systems, they are opposite cultures/concepts.

once something is shown to have 'orderly systems', we look for the 'orderly intelligence' that designed/produced the order.....even as we say the world as we now view it is governed/ordered by Nature {or as some say= mother nature}

Now, as far as human beings, yes...., I admit .....some of them are: orderly, and some are chaotic, and some are in beween ;)somewheres,

so if there was a 'bigbang' was it an orderly explosion, overseen by the 'father of lights' or hmmmmmm could it be???

[pianoman]

Sorry guys, but I would rather spend my time on things that edify the spirit. This is interesting and all, but does nothing to further my spiritual quest.

In Isaiah it says that God told Isaiah, "my thoughts are as high above your thoughts as the heavens are above the earth". That is a though provoking statement. Can I learn more about what the Creator wants before I stand before Him on the last day? That is my goal.

Good luck with the discussion, I will bow out...............................In His name,.........Dale

[Joe]

Reading this thread is like chaos.


explosions are not of an orderly fashion that I have seen.

chaos creates chaos, demands chaos and multiplies chaos.

[perhaps]

Feb 22, 2009 22:27:42 GMT -5 Joe said:

Reading this thread is like chaos.


explosions are not of an orderly fashion that I have seen.

chaos creates chaos, demands chaos and multiplies chaos.

Does chaos exist in a literal sense?

Does not God see omnisciently all results of any random explosion, controlled by the elements that control all things,even the things that human beings consider to be chaotic,

yet, chaos perhaps does exist, yet, perfect chaos, is an oxymoronic concept, is it not?

[Joe]

Feb 23, 2009 17:18:07 GMT -5 @perhaps said:

perfect chaos, is an oxymoronic concept, is it not?

I think I can agree with that...

[pianoman]

I will go with you on this one too, Joe. I think that when we think too much about certain things, we can really set ourselves up for a fall.

Questioning things is one thing, but speculation on things that do not edify, are only speculation, and bear no fruit.

I look for those that are willing to post on here, and bring bread to feed on. If I want chaos, I know where to find that.

I am glad for the spirit of this board, and wish that more would participate and share their feelings about the things of God. I wonder if the fact that the internet seems a foreign place for us to put God's name is a factor.

I would not have a God or Jesus bumper sticker, or the fish emblem. If I have to advertise, I am not living right.

It is insulting to be flipped off by a car with a "Jesus" bumper sticker.

Thank you to all that post on here, and I would like to see more people willing to take a stand and work to edify one another here. I was invited, and love the manner of this board.

Again my thanks to all in His name..............................................Dale

[perhaps]

Feb 24, 2009 1:57:45 GMT -5 pianoman said:

Questioning things is one thing, but speculation on things that do not edify, are only speculation, and bear no fruit.

If I want chaos, I know where to find that.

........Dale

Where do you find chaos, my friend/? Is it not a 'state of mind'?

Under God's control there is no chaos, no matter how random we humans view events.

Even a riot is not as chaotic as it appears to be, there is a time and place to everything under the sun, everything is ordered,

perfectly ordered! Even though we might not understand the complexity of what God orders, yet, even the distant stars have an order to their place in the 'heavens', do they not?

Perrhaps if we do not understand the motives of our neighbors, we interpret their lives to be 'chaotic' , yet, that is only a state of mind, and even though I do not understand them, do I need to label it as a 'chaotic life'?
Perhaps the man named 'Legion' who was possessed of 'demons' is worthy of sympathy, and there certainly was hope extended to him, even though others could not tame him. just some thoughts, musings about they way I see it today, tomorrow I might just go off on a tangent and condemn people that do not agree with me, either! ;D

[pianoman]

God is not the author of confusion. Chaos brings confusion. It makes things temporarily to not make sense, or have any order to things.

God is perfect and always has order, in all things.

I hope that anything I wrote here was not condemning. I certainly did not mean it to be.

My main goal here is to uplift, and be uplifted. Certain things have their place, as you said, everything has a season.

May we search our hearts for the things that will strengthen and allow us to grow......Dale

[perhaps]

Feb 25, 2009 6:21:58 GMT -5 pianoman said:

God is not the author of confusion. Chaos brings confusion. It makes things temporarily to not make sense, or have any order to things.

God is perfect and always has order, in all things.

I hope that anything I wrote here was not condemning. I certainly did not mean it to be.

My main goal here is to uplift, and be uplifted. Certain things have their place, as you said, everything has a season.

May we search our hearts for the things that will strengthen and allow us to grow......Dale

Exactly, Dale!

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, again.

Often I find that human knowledge can be quite 'vain' .... as Solomon found out that in essense 'all things are vain' (I believe he was referring to human efforts/knowledge)
yet , Solomon finally realized that not everything was vain after all, that there really was/is a Godly purpose to all things under the heavens.

I think everyone can get caught up on ''too much/exesses'' of anything, and perhaps that is what Solomon could see, also, that we can muse all day long about how the world was created, and at some point this musing becomes as 'musing about nothing' or perhaps we can 'laugh about nothing' yet, in the end, what does it matter?

Yet, I do believe that if we are earnestly seeking God, we will be misunderstood by other human beings, much of the time, as we all have our own limits to how much 'vanity' we allow in our lives.
(personally , I think that my limits are superficial, and yet, I do understand that even that is a vain thought)

When will we really understand that even in our best, we are filthy rags, yet, when we seek after God, aren't we seeking after a purity of wisdom, knowledge, that human beings yearn for?

Of course, even our nature whats to partake of the fruit of the tree that discerns the diference between 'good and evil'??

But partaking of the fruit was against the command of our creator, so we are in a paradox, it is inevitable that we do, and the result is that we can honestly see that we have nothing (humanly)around us to hide our sin, God provides our cover...

and we can have fellowship with him, if we strive to the mark of the 'high calling' ...perhaps this high calling, is connected to really understanding the spirit of the word, through a limited studying of the letter of the word, and applying it to the spiritual life?

I do not know the answers to these questions, yet if the question leads me to seek after God then perhaps it is not a vain question.
whoa, I admit this rambling might have been overdone, sorry if it offends you, my friend.

[perhaps]

Since many 'atheists' have a strong love for truth, I do not
give up hope that some day the truth will be revealed to some of them!

In light of this, I do like to explore on a scientific mind what some truths look like to me,

We can all agree that the Earth was created.

The difference between what created Earth is worthy viewing.
was it an 'unitelligent' agent, or "Intelligent'' (meaning that the precise design of the universe was designed to function as it does, and wasn't the result of an unitelligent random design, that evolved into a precisely coordinated universe.

If there was no itelligence used in creation, then (assuming the universe to be 14 billion years old) ....when did itelligence first manifest itself, and how was it done? hmmmmm