Are workers liars?

[nathanb]

ghost said:

As I said above, workers are liars AT LEAST for the following reasons:

1. They lie about the beginings.
The way goes back to the shores of Galilee instead of We are all disciples of W Irvine

~~~ Nathan9: I will attempt to answer this list.
The way and truth of Jesus= Gospel of Salvation goes back to the first century.... Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever. NO lie there.

2. They lie about their finances.
God provides, we have nothing to do instead of We keep substantial bank accounts and do not pay taxes

~~~ Yes, the overseers, some church elders, and trusted friends have given the responsibilities to KEEP some of the friends' donation money to the ministry for the work of the Gospel.
That is a BIG lIE ! when you say they DO NOT pay taxes! Those who have this responsibilites pay the interests taxes which accumulated during the year.


3. They lie about all kinds of sexual scandals.
We are all humans and we should forgive the sinners instead of We cover up systematically and never support the victims

~~~ Yes, I agree that is not good to cover up sexual scandals. In the past it was swept under the carpret. I hope the workers have learned for their past mistakes and deal these problems openly.

4. They lie about the management of the church.
The Spirit guides everything instead of Everything is decided upon in the meetings of the High Councils

~~~ The Spirit has helped the apostles, and the church elder in guiding the church.... it is the same today! That is NO lie.

5. They lie about the official statutes of the church.
«The Truth» is not offcially recognised insted of We have been incorporated in many countries to benefit from social security

~~~ There is nothing wrong with receiving benefit from social security when the workers are qualify to receive it.... they can always give the money to the needy.

6. They lie about the whereabouts of 'problematic' workers.
Some workers are resting or are abroad instead of They had depression, they commited adultery, they were after children and were given cover by being moved in another country

~~~ Yes, this is bad. I hope they will correct these problems. The guilty party should and MUST ask to leave the ministry ASAP.

7. They lie about not having literrature.
We do not have litterature instead of We have all kinds of convention notes that should not end up in "wrong hands"

~~~ Do you consider Paul, Peter, John notes/epistles literature?

8. They lie about not having permanent places of worship.
We are not like all other churches instead of We have convention grounds and permanent special meeting places.

~~~ So, do you think we should going back with having tents conventions?

9. They lie about being poor.
When they all drive good cars, have expensive PCs and travel around quite often, not to mention the good meals they have at the expense of others

~~~ The workers have been given all these things by the friends but once they leave the work they are POOR! penniless! No car, no money, no insurance, no job, no dwelling place, no food, etc... That's NO LIE!

10. They lie about treating everybody in the church equally.
Instead of The elders and all who pay more to the workers are given priority in judgement over the ones who criticize.

And I am very sorry that people on this thread, instead of discussing these issues try to throw mud against each other - so that we will all forget the mafia-like organisation we are speaking about ...

~~~ Thanks, for the list... It gives some of us the chance to share our experiences, understanding on different issues you have mentioned.

[nathanb]

(Con't)

12. Our way is the same as the christianity of the first century.

~~~ The 2x2s fellowship and Ministry is model after the first century church. That's is no LIE.

13. Workers pay taxes (this is a BIG one dude).

~~~ The Workers in USA MUST pay taxes to the IRS when they received more than 10,000 dollars in gift/money given by the friends during the yr. However, 95% most of the workers don't get nearly half of that amount of money during the year. And if they do get that much they sent it to other workers or those who need it.

ALL of the workers must turn in ALL of their money in by the end of their home convention and distributed so they would have about the same amount 300-500 dollars to start the new year. And this is NO LIE!

14. Workers treat with scandals openly.

~~ They should.

15. The workers are guided by the spirit (this one is also a BIG one).

~~~ Yes, the workers are guided by the Spirit. They often asked the Spirit to lead them in making the right decision for the churches belief, doctrines, seeking the lost, where to have meetings, what to preach for the meetings, etc.. Some have done things without seeking the counsel of the Spirit.

16. The workers give money to the needy.

~~~ Yes, many of the workers do because they CAN'T keep any of the money during the year for themselves . ALL of the workers must turn in their money by the end of the year. So, why not share it or give it away to the needy. I sent the money overseas, to the needy workers, and ask the workers if they don't need it sent it to those who need it.


17. Workers consider their (trash) notes and letters equivalent to the scripture and themselves as having the same status as Paul, Peter, John.

~~~ Yes, some of the workers notes/studies/sermons are equivalent to scriptures and having the same status as Paul, Peter, and John's letters. If you want me to I can post some of the workers sermons/studies for you to examine. By the way notes=TRASH? hmmmm....Aren't you being a little harsh there? ..... One man's trash but to another man's treasure.

18. The Workers respect the laws of the land. However they ignore labour laws when it comes to throwing people out of the work sometimes only because of doctrinal differences or becasue they are asking too many questions. Edgar and Dennis can comment on this. Furhtermore weren't the Workers supposed to give to the poor?

~~~ Yes, the workers give their money to the needy because they know they CAN'T put it in the bank. The workers who asked to leave the work because of unbecoming behaviors, or teaching false doctrines!

There are shortage of workers and they need all of them to stay in the work but they MUST get rid of the bad apples among them it doesn't matter if they were overseers!

[joh]

I think you can find a liar anywhere..
From my experience, some of the workers I have come in contact with are genuinely honest in their feelings toward the ministry and faith they chose. I don't feel that a disagreement in discussion is harmful but rather revealing as long as it is kept civil.
I find that if I don't agree with what I am told in a bible study I will express my views and if they agree fine if not it's ok with me.
I have read about the founding of the group of people meeting in homes but that is not very important to me. What I have a problem with is: once you get interested in the meetings the workers leave. I don't understand that part.

[growing]

Mar 4, 2009 14:53:50 GMT -5 @joh said:

I find that if I don't agree with what I am told in a bible study I will express my views and if they agree fine if not it's ok with me.
I have read about the founding of the group of people meeting in homes but that is not very important to me. What I have a problem with is: once you get interested in the meetings the workers leave. I don't understand that part.

Why not ask them why, perhaps they have other interests pressing, and are watching to see how you handle your place? sorry ...but yes, we all wish for things that might be , I know I do, too.

[Anonymous]

Dear Friend, I had two years in the work- there were no nasty surprises - I was like you curious. But there was no hidden agendas - you go in with nothing - you live off the charity of the friends - nothing is yours and the hardest part is you have no private space or time - its very stressful and it takes a tremendous amount of discipline to cope with it. My girlfriend went into the work too - she was told she had too much money and give it to her family - they are not professing. The workers are what they seem - occasionally a difficult personality but honest and sincere. I will say one of the workers I professed thru tried to interfere with the children of the family I came to the mtngs thru. Not me or the oldest girl my friend - I didnt know for years after - I do feel angry with him. As to whether it should have been made public - I think that choice belongs to the parents of the children - I would want to put it behind us - I would want my child to be a survivor not a victim. You dont know until you are in the situation then its up to the person to decide what they can cope with. I look at the other worker I professed thru and I got to know his family so well - I love them so much - they are safe wonderful people. I guess there are some relatives in every family who you would rather not be connected to but they are there warts and all. I have found the friends and workers to be warm hearted mostly reliable and just trying to do as Jesus said. I took me many years to fully accept that the Truth is what it is and to relax and enjoy the fellowship and what the meetings really offer. Its not something someone can tell you - if you give it a chance experience and your own sense will tell you what you want to know.

[noname]

Dear Anonymous,
why did you leave the work?

[Annonymous]

I left the work because I was so stressed at speaking in front of people and and as I said there is no me time. Even now I have a child and husband I need time to myself to get my thoughts together - find myself again. I'm a shy quiet person - my sister says I have more points than a compass - not easy going apparently. My girlfriends and I came from very wordly backgrounds. My parents are totally atheist fitting into the work didnt come naturally to any of us. It was a culture shock on both sides. Leaving the work is not done lightly. It is a really truly terrible experience that takes years to get over. If i stayed I'd have permanent health problems - I would have had a break down - so I gave it my best shot. Now looking back I couldnt have done anything else.

[shawnja]

I really find this sad! Sad that not everyone can see clearly men are men. Flesh! You. Me a worker everyone! The truth of God is perfect! Men and the flesh are not! And oh Satan wants to take our focus off the perfection of Christ and reveal and trip us up over the wrong, the failure the sin of a brother! Sure! Look! See! Then look inside and see we have all come short!
When did it start? Where are its origins? What, where and what are they called? Who has messed up and fallen short? How was it handled? Give me a break!!!!!! A perfect gift from God through unperfect people! Why is that your focus? Look to him who is perfect and able to present you spotless! No one else! Oh soul, its between you and your maker. That is all that anyone is trying to give their life to point out!

[eternally]

This is a question that gives me pause. Is it a question thrown out just to see what responses it will create? Or, is it motivated by someone with an agenda? Workers are human, I know because I was in the work for a few years...my reason for leaving, which my companion didn't understand, was that I could not cope with the lifestyle. In the 60's, leaving the work was not well received and the stigma of doing so was a burden I carried for many years. This, being said, I do not believe that over the broad spectrum, that all workers are liars. God knows the heart, if such an attitude would be evident, I am certain there would be intervention, preventing such an individual from entering the work. Would it not be better for us to concentrate on the truth of the message they speak than to be concerned with negativity. As brethren
within the household of God, let us pray for our workers, that they be vessels of honor in the service to God and His people.

[trevor bereck]

re:
9. They lie about being poor.
When they all drive good cars, have expensive PCs and travel around quite often, not to mention the good meals they have at the expense of others

~~~ The workers have been given all these things by the friends but once they leave the work they are POOR! penniless! No car, no money, no insurance, no job, no dwelling place, no food, etc... That's NO LIE!

The workers that leave the work actually do get some start up money but that's only right. Can't just let a person leave and have nothing.

[jetmech]

I was reading in Isaiah Ch 40 Verse 22 about the " ... circle of the earth ..." Does this mean that while the Bible was being written they knew the earth was round?